That's Good Parenting: Expert Tips to Reduce Parenting Stress

Why Parenting Feels Like a Power Struggle: Executive Functioning Help with Dr. Anna Levy-Warren, EP 135

• Dori Durbin • Season 3 • Episode 135

Share episode

Send us a text

Have you ever felt like you’re repeating yourself all day long. It's the reminding, prompting, and enforcing that still makes you wonder why your perfectly "capable" child just can’t follow through?

If routines turn into power struggles and you’re exhausted from being the  “bad guy" then this episode is for You!.

In this episode of That’s Good Parenting, licensed clinical psychologist Dr. Anna Levy-Warren helps parents understand executive functioning including: what it really is, how it develops, and why kids who struggle with it aren’t lazy, defiant, or unmotivated. She also shares practical ways parents can support their kids without constant conflict or burnout.

IN THIS EPISODE, WE TALK ABOUT:

  • Executive Functioning 101
  • Power Struggles & the “Broken Record” Feeling
  • Stress, Screens & Burnout
  • Developmental Expectations Explained
  • Practical Tools That Actually Help

ABOUT DR. ANNA LEVY-WARREN

Anna Levy-Warren is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Organizational Tutors, a leading network of executive functioning experts.  With over 20 years of experience in the field of psychology including a PhD in Clinical Psychology, Anna is a leader in the field addressing executive functioning challenges in students of all ages. 

As a mother of three Dr. Anna brings both professional expertise and lived experience to her work, helping families move from daily frustration to understanding, regulation, and connection.

CONNECT WITH DR. ANNA

CONNECT WITH DORI


https://www.doridurbin.com

Want to help shape future children’s books created by experts like Dr. Anna?
Join the That’s Good Parenting Club to vote on concepts, give feedback, and get early access to new releases:

https://club.thatsgoodparenting.com/club

Intro for TDP (version 2)

Dori Durbin: [00:00:00] Welcome to, that's Good Parenting, the podcast that searches for simple steps to reduce your parenting stress. I'm your host, Dorie Durbin, children's book illustrator, book, coach, ghost writer, and podcaster.

Parenting in today's world is so complex at times, and as someone who helps experts turn big ideas into children's books, I'm always thinking about how these complex concepts land inside the kids' world and inside everyday family life. So if you're listening right now and you're thinking, Ugh, I am so tired of hearing my own voice, why is my perfectly capable kid?

Falling short all the time, or why does everything turn into such a big power struggle? Then? This episode is definitely for you. Today we're talking about executive functioning, and how parents can support their kids without becoming the manager, the enforcer or the bad guy all the time.

So I am so excited and honored to welcome today's guest, Dr. Anna Levy Warren. Dr. Anna is a [00:01:00] licensed clinical psychologist who works with families specifically around executive functioning, learning differences, emotional regulation, and family stress. She's also a mom of teens herself, which brings a very real world perspective to this conversation.

Anna, I'm so glad you're here.

Thank you so much for having me. Like I said before, the podcast, this is such a big topic and I think it's something that a lot of people don't really understand. So since our listeners haven't met you could you share just a little bit about who you are and the kind of work that you do?

Sure. 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: I mean, I would love to tell a beautiful story and journey that's well put together, but the truth of it is that I was a clinical psychologist doing complicated neuropsych assessments, like helping people figure out what diagnostically was wrong.

And at that time, 20 plus years ago, when we found problems with executive functions, you know, there really wasn't anyone to implement the findings and support kids in the way they needed. And so I started doing that work. [00:02:00] And I really fell in love with it. I loved finding the strategies and real life solutions to these approaches.

Approaches that were complicated for kids, understanding why, finding the patterns. I found it fascinating. But the real story is that then I had three of my own kids and they brought me to my knees in terms of I, you know, I was giving this advice and it was so pretty and I was telling parents what to do.

And then I found myself having kids with executive functioning challenges, especially my now 17-year-old. And I could not believe how frustrating it was, how upsetting it was, how exhausted I was, how all these beautiful strategies that I was so sure were going to change everyone's experience. You know, the ways that they worked and didn't.

And I had to really get deeper into myself, into the relationship, into what worked and how we actually model these kinds of changes versus just teaching them. So that has changed the course of my professional journey. And my own kids [00:03:00] have taught me so much. You know, they've really put me in my place about what, how this works and when it doesn't.

And I think that's really where my advice at this point comes from, is that I'm not an expert. That they have really helped me understand my own vulnerabilities and come to this from a more integrated perspective. 

Dori Durbin: As a sidebar here, sometimes I think as parents, we should develop our career after we have kids.

Yeah, because exactly what you said, because we're, we're put into a spot where we have to parent not knowing what to do and learning out you know, as we go, so to speak, and finding the resources in order to do that. And that's exactly why we're doing what we're doing right now. I mean, but in the same vein, it makes you such an expert because you've not only survived it, but you've been able to help people in a deeper way beyond that.

Yeah. I 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: mean, I hope so. And, and what's interesting is that there have been moments where I've gotten that reflection from my own kids about the ways that things have changed, and that's been the most [00:04:00] meaningful kind of feedback that I can get. It's like, oh, this didn't work and now it's working, or I'm taking this.

Step on my own. And you know, I think executive functions are, have become a hot topic over the last 12 years in a way that's very helpful. And there's a lot of focus on like skills and strategies, which are very important, but understanding the sort of developmental growth, understanding the ways in which they move and change when we're tired, when we're overloaded, when we're.

Thick, you know, and when the, you know, time is crunched differently, that to that is actually the gorgeousness of understanding executive functions is the way that they move and the sort of both synaptic level change that you're looking for, and the requirement of keeping an eye on them at all times because it can shift given the different settings.

Dori Durbin: Okay. I have to back you up just for a second. Let's pretend just for a second that somebody's listening and they're familiar with the term. 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Mm-hmm. 

Dori Durbin: But they really don't know what it [00:05:00] includes. And, and I guess my second question is, how does that change with the child's age?

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Yeah, I mean, that's a really great question. So, you know what, I think, let's start with, people really focus on executive functions in terms of the concrete manifestation, like time management and organizing and you know, priorities and those things are real, but at a brain level, right? Let's just talk step back.

This is the air traffic control of the brain. It's the frontal lobe. It's an umbrella term for an interrelated set of cognitive processes. So it's not, you know, there, there's movement in it. There's not, you know, there, there, there's some core things that we're gonna focus on, but there's a reason that sometimes it feels confusing to people.

At its core, there's working memory. Self-control and mental flexibility. When I say working memory housing and retrieving information, the Post-It note system, I like to think about a server at a restaurant who's like the person with strong working memory. They look at you, they say, what's your order? You give them seven thing, gluten-free, dairy, free diet, Pepsi hold this.

And they like [00:06:00] look at you and they're like, I got you. And they spit it out to the kitchen and the information comes back. It's no problem. And then there's another person who's like, I'm sorry, what did you. Did you say? Can you say that again? Did you say Diet Coke? And you're like, no, no, I said Sprite.

Did you say, and you're watching working memory, right? You're watching it happen. How is it going in and out and what's moving? So that's, you know, and, and you can imagine in school when you give instructions, like this manifests every day in multi-step directions. So a kid with strong working memory, you say Get ready for school.

And they have a mental checklist of those things. When you don't have a strong working memory and you say, get ready for school. What are you talking about? There are 400 things required on that list, and you watch 'em and you're like, why haven't they gotten ready for school before every single day? But it's because that list is not actually in their brain.

It's not organized. There's no post-it notes at the rec. So you can really feel the difference in the classroom, but also just getting in and outta the house, right? And then there's self-control, which is self-regulation, [00:07:00] self-monitoring, delayed gratification for those familiar with the marshmallow test, right?

Like this is the way that we really, you know, regulate our systems emotionally. And we see ourselves that we don't do things right, like we, that the decision not to do things, don't pick up the iPad that's sitting there. We're having to do that. All the don't dos all day long. I'm not gonna talk to the person next to me.

I am not going to go grab this thing before I go out the door. It's it constant. And then the last one, just very simply, mental flexibility is flexible thinking and transitions, shifting sets. Going from one thing to another. Also the capacity to see another perspective, right? So all of these things at the core are what we're dealing with at a brain level.

And I think when we think about it this way, it allows us to have more flexibility in terms of what we're seeing versus like, my kid doesn't have an issue with this, you know, this, this very specific thing, like time management. But they might have an issue with holding things in mind in a [00:08:00] particular way, and that's still a set of the executive functions, if that does that make sense?

Dori Durbin: Yeah, it does. And then as is. In terms of ages. Mm-hmm. I'm assuming it just, it should progress so that it, you know, they can handle more complex conditions, more complex directions, all that kind of thing. Right? 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Absolutely. So, you know, as brain development goes all the way through 25, before those executive functions are fully developed, right?

And so you. See these big as there's more cognitive load more required throughout, especially academic settings you watch as the brain is more and more executive functions are needed, right? The strength is actually needing to increase. And just an interesting thing, there's something like A DHD has a three year developmental lag, so that's when you start to watch it shift back in terms of executive functions and you still get a lag when.

Kids are having when they're overloaded or tired or stressed, or there are other kinds of conditions that may make it more challenging. But yes, you know, you're watching these different requirements over time. You can actually see [00:09:00] it in kids, right, when they're able to hold more information differently when they're able to regulate themselves better.

So it's an individual path, but of course there's developmental milestones going up and up and up. But it's helpful to understand that they're not fully developed until that very late adolescent. Yeah, exactly. So you, you think we send these kids to college to do so much, you know, executive functioning labor and they're often ill prepared because we've been doing it for them for so long and we didn't realize that we had to teach it or really model it for them differently.

Dori Durbin: Wow. And 25, yeah, they were out of college, which, and some, some kids are already married, so that's even a little bit more specific. Yeah. Oh my goodness. So as I'm thinking through this. If I'm a parent and I'm saying to myself, okay, maybe this is what's going on with my kid, would it be the developmental steps that would give me a cue that there's executive functioning issues or what would be some common things that I might notice and say, oh, maybe that's what's going on.

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Yeah, what a great question. You know, I, I think the. [00:10:00] The way as parents that we have to manage is, is actually sort of relative, right? If we're getting feedback from school, if you're getting, if you're feeling like the chronological age and the developmental age aren't matching in a way that makes sense to you, and I also find that there's a little bit of like a broken record feeling that's beyond just a kid, like not listening, but you're watching them.

Not integrate something like, please get ready for school, that they really don't seem to remember, you know, in a, in a way that the pattern of getting ready for school includes that you put your shoes and socks on at a certain time, that you get your water bottle, that you get your lunchbox, and you often either have other kids or you see their friends and they're not struggling in exactly the same ways, and it's consistent.

It's not because they're having a bad day or they're too tired, but really because there's actually a sort of way that you're watching their brain not do a thing that you would expect them to do. And I think often parents feel the frustration in a calm moment. You know, like not in the hot moment where you're doing it with them 'cause we're all frustrated, but [00:11:00] actually you're reflecting on it.

It's like, why are they still not able to kind of go brush their teeth, take a shower? Put their pajamas on and they're 10 and we've been over it a million times. What is going on? Right. So it, that little I think as a parent we often get that little feeling before we know what's happening and we, that we're asking those questions.

Dori Durbin: That's really good. Yeah, because I think we're quick to label things anyway. 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Mm-hmm. 

Dori Durbin: And parent, I know I went through like list of things, okay, this isn't happening. I think it's good to cue into. Each kid is different and develops at different rates.

But that processing of the feeling like you're nagging all the time, that might actually be a real cue for some people. Is that correct? 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Yeah I think that is correct, but there's also just this feeling of like, something isn't changing at the rate that you would expect it to be changing, right?

Kids, they, the brains, they wanna grow, they wanna move, they want, you're being consistent in your messaging. You're saying this is what it looks like to get ready for [00:12:00] school, and you're not seeing the integration or the internalization of the things that you're trying to do. So I think that actually is a really important indicator.

Dori Durbin: Gotcha. Let me ask you a little bit of a side question, 'cause I, I know that you deal with a lot of families who have high conflict in their homes. Is executive functioning, part of that? 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: What a good question. You know, I think the, the dysregulation is a part of it.

So oftentimes, you know, the, the self-regulatory piece of this, and that includes both the concrete, like sleeping and eating, and. Body movement, you know, and the capacity to manage intense emotions, you know, like that. That is often a part of this. But I also think that part of the challenge with executive functions when they're on the weaker side, or more challenged, is that it's hard to anticipate what's coming.

So there isn't as much planning and everything can be sort of inefficient. And in a world that runs on time, that causes a lot more strife. So these things are sort of a vicious cycle and perfect storm. You can imagine, right? If we have. [00:13:00] Especially two, 2, 3, 5, you know, working caregivers in the home and people really want to get out the door to do their own jobs in life.

And then you have kids who are struggling to get out the door. The day starts in a sort of dysregulated mess because you're not, you have. Kids who can't do those things on their own in the same way. And that frustrates disregulates and increases escalation quickly because there are needs that aren't being met for everybody.

So I really see that kind, that part of it. And, and if you don't have a strong working memory and so you're having to repeat yourself, and then there's increased frustration so you can all of a sudden see how. Executive functioning challenges can really lead to increased conflict. It's not always the case, but I would say that there's more frustration when you have these kinds of inefficiencies in the system.

Dori Durbin: That really makes sense. It's like a whirlwind of issues. Yeah. Coming down all, all in the same time without a solution. 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Yes, exactly. 

Dori Durbin: So when I help people write kids books, we start with the character and really [00:14:00] dig into understanding what they're thinking, what they're feeling, how they're reacting because we want the readers to connect, so you are working with families. What are those kids internally thinking and saying to themselves compared to what other people see on the outside? 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Right. I, one of my favorite examples of this, and it's such a good question, is, you know, whenever I hear a parent or a teacher or anyone in a position of, sort of evaluating, use the word lazy, that's always a huge red flag to me.

Or manipulative, or, you know, not like they're not listening in a like resistant or oppositional way. And my first question is. Is that really like, maybe, you know, maybe that's the experience you have, but more likely there is a kid who is struggling enormously on the other side of that and truly unsure of how to meet this expectation.

And it often is leading to them feeling bad and sort of avoiding the behavior that's leading them to feel bad. So really early on, the, the experience of a kid who is [00:15:00] internally less organized is I didn't you, you say five minutes till we have to go. And it's like WWWW. Like, I don't know what that means.

I don't know what it feels like. And now you're upset at me. I didn't do something, but I didn't feel the time passing. And also I have no idea where my other shoe is. Like what a silly question. And I got and, and oh my God, did you see the beautiful butterfly that was outside the window? Like, why are you not excited about the beautiful butterfly?

And then this feeling of like, people are giving me all this negative, you know, feedback when. I saw a beautiful butterfly. I have no idea where my shoe is. Why do you think I did something wrong? And I didn't know five minutes had passed. And I think what actually happens is that there's a a lot of feeling of confusion and feeling of sadness and being unseen and un misunderstood, and then a feeling of wanting to hide.

So I, I think that oftentimes these challenges lead to what I, what I, talk a lot about is not developing a kind of positive academic [00:16:00] self in particular, because the experience is there's a lot of negative feedback coming in. And so I prefer to just, see if I can cover myself and not.

Seen versus getting caught and that it's very rarely about actually trying to, you know, be oppositional or lying or manipulating the situation as much as just like not wanting to feel bad. 'cause I'm already feeling bad if I'm a kid in this situation, I'm already being told kind of in a confusing way that I'm not doing things the way that people want me to.

And most kids, at the end of the day, want their parents and their caregivers and the people around them to feel good about them. To give them positive feedback. We want the synaptic Yes. And success and the feeling of deliciousness, of relational positive growth and connection, and we're not getting it.

Dori Durbin: Ooh, I'm so sad for them. I,, I get exactly why that would happen. And the fact that the parents are still labeling, what they are seeing. The interesting thing was my next question was really about the parents. And so [00:17:00] now I'm really curious. So as a parent who feels like you're constantly.

I don't wanna say judging, but you're looking at your child and maybe, maybe even a little bit disappointed with their behavior or their reactions. 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: There's probably a lot of like guilt to that and trying to function as a parent and feel good about it. So, how do you help the parents on the other side?

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Yeah. I mean, one of the things that's just so notable to me is I, have all this information and I just, I'm not, I'm, I get so frustrated, you know, I don't, I can have all this information. It's so beautiful. I can understand where my kids are struggling. I can be empathic and it's so annoying.

You know? I need them to leave the house. I need to go to work at the end of the day. I really understand. And the thing that's been. So important to me just as a, as a parent to sit with is I feel frustrated and if I'm feeling frustrated, I need to go take a break and like take a pause and come back when I'm feeling less frustrated about it.

And so I used to try to tell my kids to take a breath, but now I tell myself to take a breath and I'll take a second and kind of [00:18:00] come back and I really try to speak about my frustration and not from my frustration, which I think is a really helpful framework for. The internal family systems and parts of self work that, um, I find really useful in speaking to kids you know, you can really understand that I feel frustrated, but I don't have to speak to you.

From my frustration with a tone and a sort of affective intensity. But I think we have real empathy as parents for ourselves of like, this is really hard. We have expectations on us, on our kids. We're told they have to do these things. They're struggling. We're struggling. And so how do we co-create an environment and collaborate with those kids about what we can do differently when in the moment that are not hot, not the problem moments.

Does that make sense? 

Dori Durbin: Yeah, absolutely. I think we do, we try to solve things when we're upset. Yeah. Or at least get movement somehow. And it may not be a positive movement, it's just movement, you know? Yep. Um, so yeah, taking that pause to just [00:19:00] take the break and reevaluate calm down. Yeah. 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: And also be open to a reset.

I mean, that's the other thing my kids taught me. It's like sometimes things are going really south and then someone changes the tone, but you wanna go back over what just happened. It's like. Don't go back over what just happened. It's fine. Do it later. Do it before the next time, but this time get out the door.

You know like that. That's right. You changed the great, you found the sock. We don't have to spend another 25 minutes going over. Why you lost the sock to begin with. Let's just go. 

Dori Durbin: It's easy to dwell on what didn't work. Uhhuh. Yeah. . That actually brings up an interesting question in my mind too, is we're talking about people who are identified, their families are identified with these cognitive lapses, let's call it that.

All of us though, use executive functioning skills. All of us could get better at them. Do you feel like there's anything that most people struggle with when it comes to executive functioning? 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Most people. That's a great, that's a great question. I mean, I think all of us, because we get tired and stressed, have moments of real executive functioning lapses, and [00:20:00] I think that devices, you know, screens bottom up versus top-down attention has really made it more challenging.

So we all get distracted more easily. Right now. We all get pulled into, you know, even those of us with very strong executive functions. Things are popping up and calling for us. All the time, and I, I really think intentionality around times where you are not allowing that kind of popup and distraction is crucial.

So whether it's family dinner where everybody puts their phones away, or it is an intentional time where you exercise or be in nature without having devices, if it is being really clear about not keeping screens in a bedroom. All of those things to me are crucial in being able to actually allow for that strengthening where you take time to let your brain not be regulated by external popups and demands for your [00:21:00] attention.

And then the other thing, I will sneak in and I, I could give a five hour talk on the calendar, but I. Could not recommend a family calendar more highly. Like I, I think that it is something we don't realize. It's organizing. It helps us anticipate things. It helps us be together in planning. It helps do a retrospective.

And I think it is a beautiful opportunity to actually as a family, once a week, go back over like what worked and what didn't and to work backward off of big things that are coming up and what you have to do to prepare that. Everybody needs help with that. Everybody really needs help in anticipating not just what's coming but how it's gonna feel and what we can do to take care of each other in it.

And that goes from like a big family party all the way through a test or a start of a new workday or a vacation, that there's a strange expectation, like we're all gonna know how it's gonna go and what it's gonna feel like. And we don't do as much of a good job, especially with children, of walking them through those steps.

And I think the [00:22:00] calendar reminds us to do that. 

Dori Durbin: I love that. And you know what's so funny is I'm listening. I'm thinking how practical, logical it is. I'm a calendar resistor. I, yeah. For a long time, just tried to put it all in my head. And you know, we were talking a little bit before about how sickness can affect you. Mm-hmm. And all of a sudden, what's the one thing that goes really fast when you're sick? Yep. Your memory, your brain, your court, you know, organizing. It's all downhill.

You know, looking at it from a family perspective is a amazing suggestion and really one that. I need to do, I know a lot of people, other people need to do as well. 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Yeah. And, and listen, a lot of people who are creatives and they want a time away from calendar and they want spontaneity, and I really value that too.

And I'm not saying that that can't exist. I'm not a fan of every minute scheduled. I am a fan of understanding values and priorities and having them aligned with what is reflected in their calendar. So when people tell me. Nothing is more important to me than [00:23:00] family dinner. And I'm like, well, when is it scheduled for?

You know? And then you realize that's not actually what's being reflected, that I think that alignment is so important for kids. It's like if you're gonna say, that's the thing that's important, let's make sure it's the thing that's important and it's reflected and written down and committed to, and so that there's a real shared understanding.

And I think that's both emotionally important and really valuable and connecting relationally. I think it is organizing and executive functioning, strengthening to work on this very specific concrete strategy. 

Dori Durbin: That's awesome. Now you have tutors that actually help people get organized. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

I'm super curious. 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Yeah, sure. I mean, when I started this work, I tried to do it with everyone myself, and I'm just a really big fan of rapport and the relationship and liking the person you're working with, but. Executive functioning. Strengthening isn't just teaching. You know, if you could just be taught it, you would've done it already.

It's really about modeling and being in it with somebody and having it kind of routinized [00:24:00] till you do things over and over again until you sort of take it over. So what I found is that executive functioning coaches and tutors had a different job. It was about approaches and processes. It wasn't about getting your homework done, and they needed to have a good relationship.

So I collected a team of wonderful people. That would really help strengthen executive functions by being in it with kids and like specializing in the developmental period and focusing on like their specific growth edge. So not where they are chronologically, but where they are sort of synaptically, developmentally moving just to that sweet spot where they feel good about what's coming next.

So if someone like my daughter. 17, but getting outta the house, she looks like she's six. So if I tell her she has to act 16 over and over again, it's frustrating for everybody. But if I hire a coach to help her make sure that she acts like she is, you know, seven, and then eight, and then nine, and then 10 until she builds her own system, that was relieving to all of us.

I couldn't be in that with her. I really, and she didn't. I'm not cool enough, you know, like I didn't wanna [00:25:00] create the system like she wanted to have her own stuff so that. Coaching at both an academic and sort of home life level. Uh, it relieved me personally, and that's, and then I started helping people do this across the board with all kinds of complex neuropsych profiles and emotional obstacles to learning.

Dori Durbin: Now this, it sounds like you pair them up to somebody who is a good fit for them 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: too. Yes. Mm-hmm. I'm a matchmaker in that way. Like I really want people who. You know, I want it. It's about liking and trusting, you know, I'm not the best fit for somebody who's, in case you can't tell, right? Like very laid back and you know, might play a musical instrument and really doesn't want somebody who, you know, goes off quickly or intensely.

It's like, that's not me. But I want you to sit with somebody who can meet you where you are so that you're gonna make that internalized change. Not just rely on me 'cause that doesn't work. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. Yeah. And you work with people in other ways too, do you? One-on-one. Yeah. Yeah. Tell 'em a little bit about that too.

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Yeah, I mean, I [00:26:00] work with people. I do both this matchmaking and we, and I run a company that does that for kids. And then I run an adult company for adults who have executive functioning challenges, you know, of all different kinds of people who want to be more efficient, more effective, think about their own time management, think about their relationship to those time management.

Skills. Think about their avoidance or resistance, like sort of the complex underbelly of it too. And then, yes, I, I have a private practice where I work with high conflict partnerships and any kind of complex family system where there's sort of escalation or struggle with any of these kinds of high intensity, uh, dys, regulatory, dysregulated moments.

Dori Durbin: Okay. And so before I ask you the very last question, can you tell our listeners about where they could find more about you and find your services? 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Sure. Thank you for asking. The kids are organizational tutors.com. The adults are still advising. And then I'm Anna Levy, Warren, PhD for the [00:27:00] high conflict for those people.

It's like, yeah, that's me. Yeah. So that's, and, and I'm, I'm usually pretty searchable on the on, on little Google search. I can be found there too. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. And Anna, would you be comfortable with them just reaching out and emailing you

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: yeah, I think any of those contact forms or anything like that is I'm, I'm available and I, I love being a resource to people whenever I can be.

So it feels good to me. 

Dori Durbin: Awesome. Awesome. Okay, so the last question is, I know that you've worked with a lot of people who have been very vulnerable in their frustration. They probably are going to contact you and that's gonna be the first thing that we really want them to do. But if they were listening to the podcast and say to themselves, I really wanna make a change in my family.

I really am not sure what the very first thing that I can do, is, what would you suggest to them? 

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: You know it, I think it's a great question and I'm gonna go back to something that I, I already said, which is that I actually would just make sure that you have a centralized time and place to connect [00:28:00] over what's working and not working in your week, and ideally have that be sort of around a calendar.

And then I'm gonna sneak in an extra one, which is if you do have kids with executive functioning challenges, if time is a challenge in your home. Make sure that you have a visual timer. I know that sounds very silly and simple, but for people who don't internalize time, going back over clocks over and over again and expecting them to hold onto what time feels like is such a frustrating experience for everybody.

And visual time is. It's different. It comes into your brain differently. So if you're a person who's like, my kid never knows what time it's start to use a visual, like a pie, a visual on like time timers, that red thing that moves and see if that makes a difference and start to talk about it around like, this is how much needs to move and let's set time and timers together and have it be as collaborative as possible.

Um, so I think especially with kids, the more that they're involved in the process, the better it is. The more that we're speaking, you know, about time as something that's quite complicated and the [00:29:00] centralized time and place. So I snuck in more than one, but that's my quirky. 

Dori Durbin: I really love that because everything's so digital, like you said, and mm-hmm.

How do you perceive a digital clock compared to a ticking one, you know? Right. I love that. Okay. Dr. Anna, you have given us just a wealth of information and I know that people are listening right now.

They're gonna contact you. I know that they're gonna follow you because we're gonna include all your links and information in the podcast notes. And I just wanna take just a minute and thank you for doing what you do. You have a very hard job that reaches a lot of people and you are seeing success, and so thank you so much for doing that.

Dr. Anna Levy-Warren: Yeah, thank you so much for having me and letting me talk about it. I absolutely love it. 

Dori Durbin: Oh, thank you. Alright, listeners, make sure you find Dr. Anna Levy Warren and that you know that parenting. We're not trying to achieve perfection, we're just trying to end our day knowing that we can say now. That was a good decision and that's good to parenting.

We'll talk to you [00:30:00] soon. 


Head Shot

Dori Durbin

Host