That's Good Parenting: Expert Tips to Reduce Parenting Stress

Brave & Daring Parenting: Tiny Habits that Build Big Courage with Jonathan Fanning EP 126

• Dori Durbin • Season 3 • Episode 126

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Do you wonder how to grow authentic, courageous kids—without adding more stress to family life?

In this episode of That’s Good Parenting, host Dori Durbin talks with Jonathan Fanning, international keynote speaker, leadership expert, and author of Who Are You Becoming? Jonathan shares practical, story-driven ways parents can stress less, listen better, and build family rhythms that grow courage and character.

This Episode Is Perfect For:

  • Parents with kids of all ages
  • Educators, coaches, and mentors who guide kids
  • Leaders who want servant leadership to start at home
  • Families craving simple habits that deepen connection

You’ll Hear:

  • “Who are you becoming?”
  • How Brave & Daring Day builds lasting confidence
  • Upgrade parent-child conversations in minutes
  • S + R = O (Situation + Response = Outcome)
  • Why stories and role models shape identity

About Jonathan:

Jonathan Fanning has delivered 500+ keynotes worldwide and authored multiple books including Who Are You Becoming? His work equips leaders—and parents—to close the gap between who they are and who they’re becoming through small, repeatable habits that compound over time.

Connect with Jonathan:

About Dori:

Dori Durbin is a Christian wife, mom, author, illustrator, and children’s book coach who, after a life-changing illness, followed her dream of deepening parent-child connection through books. She helps nonfiction authors and experts “kid-size” their content into impactful children’s books.

Follow Dori:

Interested in writing your own children’s book? Let’s Chat:
https://link.dreambuildercrm.com/widget/bookings/mydori15chat

Intro for TDP (version 2)


Dori Durbin: [00:00:00] Welcome to, that's Good Parenting. I'm your host, Dory Durbin. I'm a children's book illustrator and book coach and the podcaster of this show, and I help experts, kids size their expertise into kids' books that families love.

Today, though, today I'm joined by Jonathan Fanning. Jonathan is a speaker and the author of the book, who Are You Becoming? He's also a leader who has given more than 500 keynotes all over the world. He's here with us to share how parents can stress less, connect more, and raise those kids who thrive.

Jonathan, I am so glad that you're here. Welcome. 

Jonathan Fanning: Oh, thank you. I'm so glad to be here. I, I love what you do and who you help, so I'm thrilled to be with you. 

Dori Durbin: It's funny, as parents, we we have a lot of commonalities besides just your area of expertise, and I think one of the commonalities is that we have these experiences that lead us into kind of the next thing.

So one of the things I really want our listeners to [00:01:00] understand is who you are because of what you've experienced and why you're helping the group that you're helping. 

Jonathan Fanning: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've, I've had a few wake up calls in my life. You know, I like to joke that Robert Frost gave me some really good advice, but he didn't give it to me.

Uh, he died before I was born, but he said he wrote, um, how many things have to happen to you before something occurs to you? And I've had a lot of things happen to me and, uh, I think gone out of my way to make sure nothing occurs to me in some of those processes. But, but one of the big ones, I was in a car accident.

Early in my career, I was in my, in my mid twenties and I was, I was doing work for some of the biggest companies on the planet. But I was in this car accident, two tractor trailers, obli, obliterated my car highway, warm day, cold night, black guys. Car starts sliding. And um, you know, every now and then we get wake up calls, you know, and I don't, I don't tell the story because it's unique.

It's not really, we all, everyone I know, everyone I've ever met has had some, and a lot of us get repeated wake up calls, [00:02:00] you know? And so often something happens, you know, maybe a friend of ours we find out, you know, whatever, they, they're sick, they get cancer, they, you know, and we get these wake up calls and I didn't wanna waste that wake up call, you know?

So after that happened, I, I started thinking like, this could have easily been the end, you know, one of the trucks hit my door. I watched it coming towards my door and leaned away. And then I'm unconscious, bam. You know? And, um. I just didn't wanna waste it. So I started thinking like, what, what do you do differently?

And I realized that one of the most important questions in life is who are you becoming? And I, I didn't spend almost any time or energy on that question, you know? And I started thinking like, a year from now, I'll be, I'll be a better friend to my friends. I'll make more time for the things that really matter.

I'll give less time and energy to the things that don't. I'll have more courage to say no to certain things or try things that, I mean, 10 years from now [00:03:00] you'll be looking back, wishing you would've done something, or you'll be so amazed and grateful that you did it right. And I started thinking like, I need to, I need a a, a, I need a way to get to become a better person, you know, better friend, better.

I wasn't a parent at that time, but now I am. I have two teenage daughters. It's a question and a half as a dad, you know, who are you becoming? And, and then there's a version too of it that says, who are you helping the people around you to become? And I, I spent a lot of my life on those two questions, so Yeah.

But that was a wake up call. But we all get them. We all get them. And the challenge is like, what are you, whatcha gonna do with the next one? 

Dori Durbin: Wow, that's so powerful. Even just even asking yourself almost daily, who are you becoming is, it's almost like you have to, because it's so easy to get distracted by life or by the frustrations of the stress that's surrounding you, right.

Jonathan Fanning: Oh, yeah, yeah. After that accident, and I wish I could say I changed a lot of things quickly, but the answer is no. [00:04:00] Um, but I started looking into, I was doing leadership work, you know, I still do leadership work with companies all over the world and, and culture work, but I started really digging into the people that make progress, you know, that close that gap between who they are and who they can be.

And you can see it, you can see the, the improvements. I try to figure out what do they do. You know, and I realized almost all of them had this incredibly simple process, but they actually kind of did it every day. Like the, you know, the expression on Apple a day, right? It's like, what will an apple a day do?

It will affect your health, right? But if you ask a thousand people, if you've ever, you know, have you ever done an apple a day for a month? And if you ask a thousand people, even if they are all in healthcare, only a few will say, uh, yeah, yeah, I do that. You know, so it's, it's like, can I have a simple process that actually works?

You know? And, but like, what does that look like? Concretely Dory, I, [00:05:00] I honestly did this. I started saying, Jonathan, you're not a good listener. Like, how do you practice listening every single day? And I thought, this is what I did. This is what I'm like, I was amazing at nodding people on. Have you ever done that?

You're like, Uhhuh. Yeah. And they're talking and you're like, Uhhuh Uhhuh. And you stopped listening four minutes ago, and you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so I, I decided the first person I met after 1:00 PM the first conversation I had, I'm like, I will practice listening, and I'll actually like, at the end of it, go, how'd you do with that?

And I started doing this, and I'll never forget, I was flying to Des Moines, Iowa for a keynote for the, the American Hospital Association in Des Moines. And, and hour and 17 minute connecting Flight Chicago to Des Moines. I get on the plane and I'm like the first person, like, whoever, whoever sits next to me on this plane, I'm going to listen to them.

I'm gonna engage in a meaningful conversation with them. I'm sitting there and this woman's walking down the island, she's talking to [00:06:00] herself as she walks, and I started thinking, I hope it's not her. I hope it's not her. And of course she stops next to my seat, you know, and she says, is this seat number, whatever?

And I'm like, no. But it was, and you know, and I'm thinking, this is, I mean, this is honest truth. I'm thinking practice listening to someone else today, but then I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. Right? And this is what I do. This is what I decided with that. Who are you becoming question, right? Because we don't make progress on things accidentally.

We we make negative progress accidentally very easily. You know how do you get in bad shape? Well, you don't need to sit down and go, I'm gonna do these three things regularly. How do you get ready to never be able to run a marathon? Well, I'm gonna do these three things every day and I will never be able to run a marathon.

You don't have to do it, you know? But I sat there and I said, zero to 10, how you doing with the listening thing, Jonathan? And I'm like, zero, maybe minus five. [00:07:00] So I, I thought well start over. And I looked at her, I said, hi, how's your day going? And she says something and talks for four minutes. And I thought, well, that was for half a second.

I was a 10, and then I was back down to like a one. You know, and this is sort of what I, I don't always do it this way, but just to make it simple, like, how do you practice something? And I mean, if you practice listening to one, pick your kid, say, I wanna have a really good, at least a one or two minutes worth of really engaged conversation today with one of my kids.

I, and then after go, how'd it go? How'd it go? Game changer. And it's crazy how simple it is, right? I don't know, Dory, I want complicated things because then I don't have to do them. I get that. I get that. Okay, Mike, lemme let me read the next book. It's, it's 400 pages and, and I'll take notes and then I'll never do anything.

That'll be great. And then I'll get the next book and I'll have a stack of them, I mean, [00:08:00] Martin Luther King Jr. Was a pretty good speaker. In the heat of the civil Rights movement, he would give five or 600 live talks a year. And they said, the people that knew him well said he would take a little piece of a speech and you'd hear him practicing it and he'd practice it, even just one-on-one with people.

So when he did the Mountain time, you know, when he did the, I Have a Dream speech in Washington DC it was probably almost 200 times that he had given that with a live audience before that moment. So it wasn't like he, I put it this way, who are you becoming is really about, pick something you're working on and then like, say, how's it really going?

Very regularly the more you do that progress, massive progress. But it's not a five. Yeah. What, 

Dori Durbin: oh no, I was gonna say, what if you're a parent who's listening right now and, and you're saying, I don't really know if I'm listening. Like, I don't, how do I even assess if I'm making progress or if I'm really. [00:09:00] I mean, I know lots of people who want to listen better.

Mm. Do they really know when they are or do they know when they're just trying? So do you have any advice on that? 

Jonathan Fanning: Yeah, several things I would say. One, if the person you're talking with is thrilled to continue talking, there's a pretty good chance you're actually listening. Well, you know, and if they shut down, change your approach.

You know, and maybe you need, maybe you need three or four better questions to keep the conversation going or to make it more meaningful with the woman on the plane. You know, I, I started thinking I can only pretend so well. And I honestly started thinking this and I said, what's I started thinking like what's a topic that I would actually love hearing her talk about?

And I thought, well, she, she had told me that she was traveling to visit grandkids and whatever. So I said, my kids are this age. And I said, when [00:10:00] your kids were that age, what, like, what, what do you now wish you knew when your kids were the age that my kids are? And then like all of a sudden, like, you know, I put it on a topic where I was interested and she was interested, so I didn't have to pretend, most of us have a better idea of when we're pretending than when we're not. 

Dori Durbin: And our, our kids know, I mean, they're like, they're like truth detectors, right? You're half involved, you're half engaged in their conversation or with their, you know, even their day. Mm-hmm. And they know right away that you are not being there present with them.

And so that's kinda why I ask that, because I think it's hard, it's hard for parents, especially busy families that are just going all the time to really, truly be authentic. And balance Hey, I wanna be the perfect parent on top of that. Like, it's, oh yeah. Oh yeah, 

Jonathan Fanning: Yeah. Another really big one for parents especially is time together facing in the same direction.

For example, ski lift time, like chairlift time, um, or [00:11:00] road trips. Just one with, with one of your kids. Uh, because when I'm looking at, I have two teenagers, you know, once in a while they will say something where my face, my body language immediately gives me away, you know, it's like, they'll say something and if I'm looking at 'em, my whole face will be like, your friend said what?

Right? Or who, you know, but, but when we're facing the same direction, we miss that. And some, so often they'll, they'll keep telling you things, you know, and. So time like that. Put figure out things. You know, I, I was telling a, a young dad recently, I said, when your kids are really little, figure out little things that you can do all way, like, just regularly, maybe it's taken a hike together or, or a, you know, we got season passes to a little tiny local scheme mountain when my kids were little and we, uh, we'd be like, let's, let's, let's see if we can hit the slopes 20 times this year, even if it's only an hour or two each [00:12:00] time.

And that's what we did. And it was just like, we're like, we're gonna do at least two this week. You know, and little things where you, you can both look forward to it. And kids need something they can count on. You know, they need some, so few parents have dinner together with their kids. They need something.

Even if it's like, you know what we're gonna do, we're gonna do from now on, we're doing Taco Tuesday. Every Tuesday we're gonna, we're gonna, or we're gonna make homemade pizza once a week. You know, or once a month if once a week seems crazy, but just something, we'll take a recipe from one of my grandparents and like bake something.

And none of us are bakers in my family, but we're like, we could probably figure it out. It's written down and we're like, let's bake, you know, we'll eat half the batter raw. You know, we just made a homemade apple, uh, apple cook and like a German apple cake a couple days ago we picked some apples and but little things that can be a rhythm that are just timed together with nothing else going on.

Dori Durbin: Yeah. You had mentioned, uh, when we talked before that you had a day that [00:13:00] your daughter, it kind of shaped your daughter. 

Jonathan Fanning: Mm. And it was 

Dori Durbin: called Brave Endearing Day. 

Jonathan Fanning: Mm-hmm. 

Dori Durbin: And I think it's so brilliant because I think so many times, like when we think of routines as like bad now and boring and not very, you know, like it sets you in like stone.

You have to do these things and I think this sounded so fun. So can you tell me a little bit about that and, and did it affect your daughter long term? 

Jonathan Fanning: Dramatically. It did. Yes. Yes. So my daughter, my oldest daughter was about five. And I was traveling a ton for work. I write books. I've written, I'm finishing, I'm writing book number five now.

And um, I get to do keynotes and leadership work all over the world. And I was traveling too much, you know, but on one of my trips, I was gone for probably eight days and it was a Friday night and I'm flying home and I was thinking in the plane, I'm like, I don't get enough time with my kids. I wanna make it meaningful, you know?

And then I started thinking, and this is such a true thought, just, I mean, this is worth writing down. The quality of our lives hinges on the quality of the questions we [00:14:00] pursue. You know, and so many of us pursue accidental questions, mediocre questions, yesterday, questions. We pursue questions like, what's, what's the easiest way to get through this questions?

But I started playing on, on that flight with this question of, if my kids only learn one thing from growing up in our house, what would I love it to be? You know? And I think so few people are intentional enough about that. And I started thinking like, I think it would be, it would be courage. I would like them to have courage, you know, and then I'm flying home, right?

And I kind of was starting to piece together this, who are you becoming idea a little better and realizing that you needed to pick something and then work on it regularly. That's it. That's it. And I said, well, how would you, how would you practice getting better at courage? So that the next morning I'm sitting down, my daughter's five, and you we're having, I think we're having waffles.

And I said, Ella, her name's Ella. I said, Ella, we're gonna [00:15:00] do brave and Daring Day. You know, she's five. So she's looking at me like, yeah, you know, and then like, I, I remember seeing her face shift to like, what does that mean? You know, I don't know how she asked, but it was kinda like, what is brave and daring day?

And I didn't have, I didn't really have it mapped out. I just knew that we should do things that it takes courage to do. So I, I told her that, I said, we're gonna do things that are like, they're maybe a little, they feel a little scary. They, it takes some courage. You have to be brave and daring to do them.

And immediately Ella got this look on her face, like, like, you know, you can almost see the, like, the little bit of the cartoons, like the little horns pop out of her head or whatever she says. She says, daddy could I climb that thing at the playground that mommy won't let me climb? I'm like. I, and you know, in my head I'm thinking, I, the first thing we do on Brave and Daring Day cannot be chicken out.

Right? Like, like I can't, so no, not that something. I and I'm about to say Sure. Or probably, and [00:16:00] Ella looks at me and she says, we don't have to tell mom. So now I was like, this is it. This is perfect. Two birds, one stone. Right? We'll, we'll practice courage and lying to your mom, like this is gonna be beautiful, you know?

So, I mean, we ended up writing down and she likes to draw, so she drew pictures. She's like, things I would have to have courage to do. Ask that one friend, whatever. Like, she drew pictures of a few things and then we did a probably six of them on that first day, you know? And. Including climb that thing at the playground, you know, and it was not part of the playground.

It was actually, you know, it was a spot where there was a bench for parents to sit and there was this, uh, trellis or something, pergola above it that was maybe 13 feet high, you know? And there wasn't a way to climb it, but, and some of your audience can see, I think. But there was a little tree nearby [00:17:00] and she's climbing that tree almost like upside down, like a sloth because the branches are swinging over this, this pergola.

And I'm watching and I'm thinking like, you know, she's only 13, 14 feet up and she's five. This is going great. Not everyone else in the playground was thinking we should practice courage. And you know, she ends up kind of swinging on the branch and landing on top of the pergola. She is. Pumped. You know?

And every parent I meet wants their kids to have confidence. You do not build, and we all know this, I think but we don't necessarily do it. You don't build confidence by telling your kid that something that's not amazing is like they see right through that. But when they, when they do something today that yesterday they didn't think they can do, they're, it's lasting.

I mean, that's real confidence. And when they do something today that yesterday they didn't think you thought they could do [00:18:00] game changer, you know, she's on top of this thing and she's like, she's, she's like. Top of the world, and then, then this, this probably eight or 9-year-old kid comes running over to me and he says he's, I don't know who he is.

He says, can you, how did she get up there? Did you help her get up there? Could you help me get up there? Can I go up there? You know? And I don't know who the kid is. I'm looking at him like, thinking, climb it. Go ahead, you know, climb the tree. And I didn't say anything to him because his mother came over and she actually put her arms around him, you know, like, and she said, she said, remember, you're afraid of heights and see if you, and I don't pick a, a pillar, a thing that, who are you becoming?

I'm gonna get better at brave and daring. I'm gonna get better at courage. Someone else probably did already for us. And someone else, and it's probably, we didn't decide that that was the, but someone else is helping us get better at something. And this, this mother was [00:19:00] helping her son to be better at being afraid of life.

You know, and I, I say this with sort of a smile but sort of if I don't sit down and say, I want to help my kid think that they can conquer things, how do I do that? The quality of our lives hinges on the quality of the questions we pursue. I don't think she ever sat down and said, I want my kid to be afraid of everything.

But I think she had a question in her mind saying, how do I, how do I make sure the world is perfectly safe? You know, how do I make sure that he never skins his knee? And I don't know that she picked the question. It's a challenge I, I give to all of the parents that are, with us today that pick one thing and practice it, you know?

And for a lot of us, I need to practice it too. You know, one, one year, my daughter, I mean, how did it affect her? So it was probably a couple years of doing this, and we wouldn't do it every Saturday. We'd do it right, every now and then, probably once a month we'd say, should we do Braven Daring Day this weekend?

And she'd say, [00:20:00] Uhhuh yeah, let's do it. And eventually she loved it, you know? And then one day, couple years into it, she said, um, my wife said my wife Dominika said, was it Braven Daring Day today? And Ella goes, yeah. And my wife says, what, um, what does Brave and Daring Day mean when it's dinner time?

And Ella was like, she's like, probably I have to try some food I never tried before. Mm-hmm. You know, I think she was seven or eight years old, so Ella decided Thursday would be try something Thursday and at dinner every Thursday it'd be, so my, my, my wife started bringing, she's like, oh, let's try scallops.

Let's try, you know, whatever, you know, curry sauce or something. And it was like, okay. And eventually my little daughter, Maya, who's, four years younger, she would, she would say, daddy, is it, is it Thursday? Is it [00:21:00] Thursday? And I'd say, Maya, it's almost Thursday. You know, it's Friday. So we only have six more days We're getting there.

And May would say, may would say, um, if you, um, when you go to the store, can you bring home a thing of ice cream that I haven't tried yet? Because Maya was like, if I'm gonna do a try something Thursday, it's gonna be a flavor of ice cream. 

Dori Durbin: It's gonna be something I like already. Yeah, 

Jonathan Fanning: exactly.

Exactly. But Game changer. Game changer. That my oldest daughter is 18 now about to turn 19, and she's starting her own business. Like she is one of the most courageous people you'll ever meet. And I would say a big part of it is practicing courage now and then, you know, because for most of the world we practice the opposite.

We spend a lot of time practicing the opposite of courage. Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: Do you think, is there like a, because you've talked to lots of leaders who also happen to be parents. 

Jonathan Fanning: Mm-hmm. 

Dori Durbin: Do you feel like there's a specific skill or trait that you feel [00:22:00] like they really struggle helping their kids achieve? I mean, we're talking about courage, that's one thing.

Are there other spots that you see parents really struggling? 

Jonathan Fanning: Yeah, really good question. Yes. Um, ki a lot of kids grow up without a lot of clarity around like, what, what am I supposed to do with my life? You know, I started running an entrepreneur camp when, um, when my oldest daughter was four.

And, uh, we've had probably a thousand kids go through versions of this entrepreneur camp. And I see over and over and over again with teenagers that they don't really have something that they're excited to be chasing. You know? And if you're not chasing something, someone else will give you something to do with your life, you know, and, and I think a lot of parents struggle to, they, they, I see over and over again that parents want to keep their kids good, busy.

And if you help your kid find something, they're totally into they'll get good busy around that. You know, they tend to, it's definitely a challenge [00:23:00] today. No question. You probably know the book, uh, the Anxious Generation, that's pretty recent. There's a lot of distractions for kids today.

And yeah. That's, but that's a big one. That's a big one. If my kid has some clarity, if they have some, like some drive, some motivation, something they're, they're excited about. Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: I feel like a lot of parents try to give that to their kids too. And then it becomes this battle of, oh yeah, it's battle will, because they're, their kids aren't really that interested, like you said, but the parent is trying to fill the plate and they're going to all the things and everybody's hating it.

And then that just causes so much friction in the whole family. And that, that again just makes everyone not talk, right? I mean, 'cause we're all mad and frustrated and following the wrong thing. So is there an a way that you've experienced that really helps people get the clarity of what they're really looking for?

Jonathan Fanning: I, I wish it was an A, b, C thing. I don't, I don't know that it is. Uh, in, in our entrepreneur camps, we always do these overlapping circles of talents and [00:24:00] passions to circles. And then the third one of a way you can serve within those or the yes could stand for cash flow to the dollar sign. Um, like, would people pay you for that?

You know, because I have, I have a passion for, let's say baseball. My talent for baseball doesn't quite overlap enough to the point where anyone would pay me to play baseball, right? But I could take that passion for baseball and say, well, I have a talent for also coordinating things. And people might pay me to coordinate something connected with baseball.

You know, like I know a woman whose company does trips to sporting events all over the country and her company coordinates these things and she's got a passion for some sporting things, and her talent is more on the coordinating than it is on the playing. And so that can help those overlapping circles depends a lot on the age of the kids.

Another one that I absolutely love is the power of stories. I spent some, uh, I spent some time with Patch Adams. We're [00:25:00] doing a, a research on a book on servant leadership. And, um, I would say parenting and servant leadership should be identical concepts. Uh, but Patch Adams told me something over and over again over the course of maybe a four hour conversation.

He said, tell me who your role models are and I'll tell you what kind of a person you're becoming. And he said it, like I said over and over again in many contexts, he said, if you know, if you're a, if you're a parent, tell me who the role model your role models are as a parent. If you're a parent, tell me who the role models are for your kids, and I'll tell you where they're headed in life.

And that goes back to the power of stories. Re reading little, maybe tiny biographies or telling little pieces of a story to your kids or helping them experience a story of someone where they say, that's amazing. You know, where they will, they will repeat it back to you three months or a year or three years later.

Remember [00:26:00] that guy you were talking about? You know, and as a parent, I don't think I can overemphasize this. I, I was in a leadership program very early in my career, and one of my mentors said, Jonathan, if people, if, if he said if people haven't, if people don't quote you, they haven't heard you. And he said, until they're quoting you, they haven't really heard you.

And as a parent, that's so true. You know? So if, if your kids aren't saying something, and it might mean you take some story that you love, you know, like Steve Jobs would always say, don't waste your life living someone else's. Don't waste your life doing what someone else could do. I don't need Steve Jobs's whole story, but if I help my kids get that piece of his story.

That like when he, he, he came back to Apple, they gave him 13 years vacation. You know, the board fired him, right? And when he came back, he said, we're working on like a [00:27:00] hundred things. No. He said, we're, we're chasing like a hundred rabbits. He, he said, we're gonna make four things and that's it, but we're gonna make four things that are incredible.

You know? And he, he lived this idea of don't waste your life doing what somebody else could do. You know, only do what only you could do. You could phrase it that way, by the way, I know somebody is listening and thinking like, but I'm not Steve Jobs. But no one else can be dad to your kids. No one else.

No one else could be mom to your kids, you know? So. Help them see one little story where they go, oh, that's kind of cool that he did that. You know, that's really neat that he did that. You know, that's really neat that she did that. So I, the power of stories is incredible. 

Dori Durbin: Yeah. Well, I'm, I'm right there with you is, in my area of expertise with the children's book.

Yeah. Um, and actually I was gonna ask you, and this is probably gonna be kind of tricky. Um, if you were to take one of [00:28:00] your core parenting lessons or your own experiences and put it into a story, what lesson would you want kids to read over and over again? 

Jonathan Fanning: Oh, wow. Wow. It's a different one than what we've talked about so far.

Okay. Yeah, there's, in my book, who are you becoming? There's a chapter that my seventh grade teacher really kind of wrote, or she didn't write it. She lived it. And I called, the chapter Happened to the world, and uh, so this is seventh grade, you know? And how cool are seventh graders? You know, 12 year olds?

They're just, they're, they're, yeah. They, they know everything. You know, they're, so I had this teacher, um, Mrs. May, she called herself mother male. She's like mother male. It's mother male. And, um, I had her right after lunch. So when you're 12 right after lunch, you know, you're kind of like, the day's almost done.

And I just ate, can I just sit here quietly in peace? But she did not allow that like she happened to the world, you know? And, and let me, let me put it this way. [00:29:00] She, she had in her back pocket like a hundred different little things that she could do that would shift the whole engagement of the room.

And we were, we were studying how living things are classified. And she gets up in front of the room and she, and then she would pretend like she just happened on the idea. And you're like, Mrs. May, you probably did this 30 times the know the last couple of years. But she goes. Oh, today. Oh, today, to today we're gonna, we're gonna dig into how, how living things are classified.

And she would bring so much energy and excitement that you're like, oh. Okay. I guess that's probably, that's probably good. But still seventh grade right after lunch, you're like, yeah. Yep. I'm glad you're excited Mrs. Male. You know, and then she did, she went like this. She went Kingdom file class, order family, gen of species, file, class order, family, gen of species.

And she starts doing this whole dance kingdom file class, order, family, gen of species. And then, you know, so [00:30:00] we start leaning forward a little bit. Like, alright. All right. It's pretty good. And she goes, oh, I'll take requests. Who should I sing it? Like, or dance it? Like, and like somebody's like Michael Jackson.

She's like, you know, and she does this Michael Jackson thing, and she's moonwalking in the room. And like, at this point, seventh graders real cool, right? Right. After lunch. But we're like, yeah, Mrs. May, you're killing it. You're killing it. Yeah. Somebody's like, do it like run DMC. Do it. Like, like I, you know, I, I can't remember all the names of the groups, but people were like, do it like, you know, the whatever, Bon Jovi or something, you know, and she's just taking, she's, we're like, do it like a hula dancer, kingdom father glass.

So, and we're into it and we're hearing it. And then she pauses and she does the same thing where she pretends like, why don't we do the dance together? Everybody stand up with me, you know? And immediately the whole room is like.

I remember one person near me is like, do not make eye contact with the woman. Some kids who had never opened the textbook or opening the book. And they're [00:31:00] like, what's, what page are we on with the lesson? You know, pretending to reading the lesson. And she's like, no, no, no. Stand up. Stand up.

She's like, okay. You can use a prop if you want. She's like, you can even, you can even pick up your chair or your desk if you want, and do the dance with me. So at that point we're like, yeah, I can do that. All right. So we stand up and we're like, kingdom A species, kingdom. You know, people are like banging their books and you know, we're all looking back to see if anybody we know is gonna walk by the classroom, you know?

Or if someone's gonna come and, and take Mrs. Male away, you know, like you've done enough teaching. Uh, and then she says, why don't we do the Congo line? We do the kingdom filing class, order dance through the whole classroom. Now, we had a test, I don't know, a couple weeks later. How many people do you think got that question wrong, of what are the classifications of living things?

Dori Durbin: Oh, I hope nobody got it wrong. 

Jonathan Fanning: Nobody. And you [00:32:00] could tell when they got there, because they'd be like 

Dori Durbin: dancing, 

Jonathan Fanning: they'd be tapping or like, and nobody got it wrong over and over again. Mrs. Male had almost every student in her class got a's, not just a's, but like close to a hundred on almost every quiz test, and, and not all of her peers liked her. The school actually looked into how she taught because they thought maybe she's spoonfeeding them, maybe she's teaching to the test, maybe she's like, you know, giving them sort of like the answers. And it turned out that, she was covering 50% more than was required most years.

And her students remembered all the stuff that she covered years and years. Like, I could walk you through the mitochondria and I could walk you through the periodic table and why things are where they are, you know? And she just, she happened to the world, you know, and, and I, I use, um, I use an equation.

It's really simple. It says S plus R [00:33:00] equals o, O is outcome. S is like the situation or the story or the scenario or the students in this case. And the R is how I respond to that. You know, and Mrs. May, her S plus R equals O is, I want an outcome of kids who actually really like learning. I want an outcome where kids like, look forward to my class.

I want an outcome where. They understand it. They're happy to ask questions. They're having a good time. They're energetic, they're not bored out of their minds, you know, and she said, okay, that's the outcome I'd love. But the students, the situation, the s is, well, they're 12, they're seventh grade.

It's right after lunch. They've got a lot of distractions, you know, but Mrs. Mail would never, never have said, I could have engaged kids if the parents would've done something differently or if the budget were different, or if the superintendent or the school district or the [00:34:00] board of education or the, if we, if never, or if they didn't have phones, then I could, I could actually reach these kids.

Mrs. May would never, never say those things. And I, this is, I would make this into a children's book, but also. A lot of parents, I mean, I struggle with it, you know, how often I'm like, oh, the world is doing stuff right. I mean, think about it happened to the world versus let social media happen to you.

How many mornings have you started the morning and you let somebody else's post or whatever, or their comment or their reply to your email or text, happen to you versus you happening to the world. And that's if I, you know, Braven Daring Day was my first day, but happened to the world was kind of like, it wasn't far after.

I'm like, we're gonna get better at happening to the world, and I started teaching my daughter, uh, my daughters when they were pretty young. I'm like, no one [00:35:00] makes you feel a certain way. They looked at me like, yeah, when he did that, it made me feel really sad. I'm like, no, actually, like no one is in charge of your emotional state.

And and they looked at me like, but everybody says it. I'm like, right. That's nice. But you could pretend they didn't say anything. Right? You, you have a lot of options between here and there. You know, I got in trouble with that one, Dory. I shouldn't even have said it out loud, but I got, I got in trouble with that one more than once.

Dori Durbin: I think that's so true though, because I think we're quick to defer other the responsibility of what we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. And that outcome, I love that. I'm just thinking like you, you gave us a great example of in the classroom, but I'm also thinking in your family's house, you know, where the outcomes that you want.

Jonathan Fanning: Yeah. And 

Dori Durbin: you work, like you, you are working with the business people on the same concept. I'm sure. Like this is, it's a huge thing, but you're right. Like be really quick to [00:36:00] get buried by everything environmental on the outside of us. Oh, oh yeah. You know, stay on top of it. 

Jonathan Fanning: Yeah. Yeah. Like I have I'll just say a person I know, a young person I know in my life who's like, probably made every choice that you would probably want a person that age not to make, he'd probably make every one of those probably 20 times in a row in the, in the direction.

You're like, oh no. Oh no. Oh, no, no. But he'll never do that again. Oh, he did it twice. Okay. And. Let's pretend hypothetically that maybe I'm, I'm his uncle, let's say. I could sit there and say, wow, wonder if he'll ever change, right? Or I could say, S plus R equals O. If I wanted to really help this person, and let's pretend, and we could all do this, and I challenge everyone listening to think about this for a couple seconds.

Pick one relationship that you have in your life that's not perfect, right? 'cause we all, we all have one, right? Maybe it's awful or maybe it's okay, but it's not perfect. And then pretend, [00:37:00] S plus R equals o. Pretend that person is not really, they're not about to change anything. You know? Like if the relationship is gonna be better in any way.

It's, let's pretend it's a hundred percent up to you to change something, right? Because this person I'm talking about hypothetically, you know, uncle me, I could say, well, huh. Or I could say, well, if, if I wanna strengthen the relationship, because most likely I can't help him unless he knows that, hey, he's on my, like, he wants what's best for me.

You know? And I can't get there unless, like we spend some time together. And let's say, let's say hypothetically, let's say he let's say, pretend that he might have a quad. And if I went for a ride on the quad with him a couple times, especially if I went on the back and trusted him to drive that, it would really make a big impact on our relationship.

And then I could sit there and say, I'm not willing to do that. Okay, but what else is he into that I'm willing [00:38:00] to spend some time? Like, where can I pretend you're a hundred percent responsible? I don't care what the relationship is, but somewhere in your life, there's a coworker, there's a friend, there's a niece, a nephew, one of your own kids.

There's your spouse, there's your ex-spouse, there's somebody that, the relationship isn't, it's not what you pretend no one else is gonna change, but you. And then say, all right, where do I go? Happen to the world, you know, take Mrs. Mail and go, all right, I'm not sure what's gonna work, but I know what's been happening.

Isn't really amazing. And then that's where, that's where the brave and Dar day comes back, right? Because you're like, well, here's three things I could do.

Dori Durbin: Well, maybe you follow it up with, try something Thursday. It'll work out better too. 

Jonathan Fanning: There you go. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: I love that. , This is awesome. And I think you have so many so many pieces of information that really are super powerful. So I do have one more question, but Jonathan, before we get to [00:39:00] that one question, can you tell our listeners how they can find you and what upcoming events or, any programs that we should be watching for from you or both?

Sure. 

Jonathan Fanning: Yeah. I, I'm easy to find my name, dot com jonathan fanning.com. We do a lot of kind of who are you becoming challenges? So if you go on our website and put in any of your, anywhere you want, there's lots of places, uh, we'll, we, we put you into a little challenge usually, um, that you'll have a lot of fun with, and a lot of them, I mean, they all affect you, period.

They all affect, like, there's always a gap between who I am and who I could be. There's always gonna be a gap, but it's nice when we can close it to some degree in some pocket of our life. So that's, yeah, it's easy to find me. Jonathan fanning.com and then, yeah, upcoming. We're, we've been doing a really intriguing interview series with servant leaders with what We've asked about 2000 people all over the world.

Is there someone you know, who you'd consider a deeply authentic servant leader? And then when we start getting, there's a whole process to it, but when we start getting the same [00:40:00] person over and over again, then we, we schedule an interview and we've done over a hundred interviews now. And part of it will turn into a book.

Part of it will turn into probably like a servant leader bootcamp. And then part of it will, we're gonna find some ways to help parents with that because I meet. Dory, I meet so many parents who are trying to figure out, okay, how do I, I want the best for my kids, but I'm not always sure how to navigate that with this specific kid in this set of circumstances.

You know, and I don't need, I don't need, like I said, the 500 page book. I just need kind of like an idea of what to like, how to talk about it right here and right now, you know? And I also meet a lot of parents, Dory, who they think, well, I did these five dumb things, therefore I have to let my own kids do these five dumb things.

You know? And it's like in certain areas we would never do that. Like [00:41:00] let's say you dug yourself a financial hole big time, and one of your kids is like, I'm getting a credit card. You'd be like, no, you're not. You know? But in other areas we seem to like be like, oh, who am I? You know? And we want to give parents courage to not only, not only love, but also to lead, because in these interviews, Dory, with servant leaders.

I would say probably 95% of them have talked about things they learned from a parent and things they learned in being a parent. And a lot of these people are CEOs of some, um, you'd know some of the names where you'd be like, and they said, you know, my mother without her I'm not, I'm not who I am.

And they'll tell you about sometime when mom called them out, or sometime when mom was like, saw something in, in the, that the kid didn't see, you know? So your, your role is unbelievably important as a parent. 

Dori Durbin: That's awesome. I love that. We can look forward to that and they'll find out [00:42:00] information on your website about that too.

Cool. 

Jonathan Fanning: Yeah. Yes. Yep. 

Dori Durbin: Mm-hmm. Awesome. Okay. You ready for the last question, Jonathan? 

Jonathan Fanning: I guess so. 

Dori Durbin: We could probably go for another two hours, but what is one way that our listeners could truly be more authentic within their family this week? 

Jonathan Fanning: Yeah. 

Dori Durbin: One thing, 

Jonathan Fanning: There's a question I love to ask.

Um, actually there's a few, but I'm gonna give you one. I'm, I'm gonna give you two of them if that's okay. One of them is, 10 years from now, what will I wish I had done today? You know, and, and 10 years from now, what will you wish you had fit into this week? You know, and that goes with the second question.

And the second question is, and it's, it's a simple one. But you have to, you have to spend time with it. It's just, how can I make this more meaningful and more memorable? You know? And what I, what I mean by this is. Whatever this is going on in your life. You know, like I just got back from a, a family trip.

Uh, 13 of us went to Ireland, and our last night in Ireland, [00:43:00] my older daughter, brave and daring, um, she's like, is there a cliff we could jump off into the ocean? And, uh, in the Galloway Bay right on the west coast of Ireland, there is a diving platform that is 10 meters, so 33 or so feet above the ocean, the Atlantic Ocean, the Galloway Bay, and the water's like 62 degrees because it's just not that hot in Ireland.

And um, she's like, could we go there? And I thought, well, how can I make this more meaningful and more memorable? Right. You, you as a parent, you spend time with that question, you know, or those two, you know, 10 years from now, what will I wish I had done? Today you find yourself doing more things, and so often they're little tiny things.

I'm like, yeah, sure. It's, it's, it's a 15 minute drive from where we're staying. No one else in the whole family was interested in going. I'm like, I'll go with you. And [00:44:00] then she's like, all right, you jumping with me, and this is where better questions sometimes will get you, uncomfortable. I'm like, yeah, I guess I'm gonna jump with you.

So we had a friend video us and, uh, you know, like somebody, actually some Irish kid actually, not a friend, some of Irish kids were like, can you be the others? And, uh, sure. And, uh, you know, we both go 30, you know, 33 feet up. And I'm like, it's pretty deep. It's pretty far down there. All right. She's l is like 3, 2, 1.

You know, how can I, 10 years from now, what will I wish I had done today? And how can I make this more meaningful and more memorable? 

Dori Durbin: That's awesome. Is your video on your website? 

Jonathan Fanning: Oh yeah. Well, lots of videos, sir. Honor. Yeah. Yeah. Well that clicked. Not yet. It will be. It'll be, yes. It'll be, yeah, yeah.

Dori Durbin: We have to check that out because I wanna see this. That's awesome. You have given us so much great information. Jonathan, I just thank you so much for being here

Jonathan Fanning: Thank you, Dory. Thanks for what you do. I love that you do this, the podcast and the books, and it's amazing to have good people to do life with and, and you we've only known each other a little bit, but enough to know that [00:45:00] you're, you're a good person to do life with.

Dori Durbin: Well, thank you. That is such a compliment. 


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