That's Good Parenting
Hello and welcome to "That's Good Parenting". The podcast that searches for simple steps to reduce your parenting stress. Sometimes those days of feeling like a "good parent" can feel few and far between.
And like you, I personally have struggled with parenting frustration, exhaustion, and even guilt. But I also know that there are solutions out there that we could put to use today.
My name is Dori Durbin.
It's my mission to search with you to find simple steps and tools to create confident and resilient kids-- without losing ourselves in the process.
You may be wondering who I am. I'm a former teacher, coach and fitness instructor turned children's book author and illustrator, as well as a book and parenting abundance coach.
More importantly, I'm a Christian wife and mom of two amazing young adults who, have quite uniquely put me through the parenting ringer myself. I've been fortunate enough to have interviewed hundreds of experts, parents and authors who have all created parenting tools that have your family's best interest at heart.
So let's stick together to find fast and effective solutions that fit our particular parenting problems. So that we can end war of our days cheering out: Now "That's Good Parenting!"
That's Good Parenting
Cuddle Chemistry: How Baby Wearing Creates Unbreakable Bonds & Brilliant Brains with Azja Pryor E119
In this episode, Dori Durbin speaks with Azja Pryor, a certified baby wearing educator and senior marketing manager for brands like LILLE Baby and Moby Wrap. Azja brings a wealth of experience working with hundreds of parents, NICU hospital teams, and organizations supporting families through trauma. As a mom of two children 18 years apart, she offers a unique perspective on parenting and the transformative power of baby wearing.
Azja Discusses:
- The science-backed benefits of baby wearing for both parents and babies
- How baby wearing supports developmental milestones and emotional bonding
- Practical advice for parents struggling with their first baby wearing attempts
- Supporting children with special needs through baby wearing
- Tips for using carriers as part of self-care routines for new parents
About Azja:
Azja Pryor, a Certified Babywearing Educator (CBWS), former fitness coach, and mom of two (a teenage son and a grade-school daughter) who is passionate about helping parents feel more confident and connected to their children.
Azja has worked with leading babywearing brands and educated hundreds of parents, caregivers, and NICU healthcare teams on the positive aspects of babywearing.
Follow Azja, LILLE Baby, and Moby Wrap:
https://www.instagram.com/loveazja/
https://www.lillebaby.com/
https://mobywrap.com/
One-on-one fit checks are available through customer service
About Dori Durbin:
Dori Durbin is a Christian wife, mom, author, illustrator, and a kids' book coach who after experiencing a life-changing illness, quickly switched gears to follow her dream. She creates kids' books to provide a fun and safe passageway for kids and parents to dig deeper and experience empowered lives. Dori also coaches non-fiction authors, professionals, and aspiring authors to "kid-size" their content into informational and engaging kids' books! Find out more here: https://www.doridurbin.com/
Follow Dori:
https://www.instagram.com/dori_durbin
https://www.facebook.com/doridurbin7.com
https://www.doridurbin.com
Interested in writing your own children's book?
Let's Chat: https://link.dreambuildercrm.com/widget/bookings/mydori15chat
Intro for TDP (version 2)
Azja Pryor and Dori Durbin
Dori Durbin: Welcome to, that's Good Parenting, the podcast where we search for simple steps to reduce your parenting stress. I'm your host, Dori Durbin. I'm a children's book illustrator, coach, writer, and a podcaster. And let me say, if you are a parent, especially a new parent who has a young child, you're probably trying to juggle everything to meet their needs, to create close bonds, and to stay somewhat sane yourself.
If this is you, then I have a gift for you. Today I'm joined by Azja Pryor, a certified baby wearing educator, and the senior marketing manager for brands like LILLE Baby and Moby Wrap as a mom of two children who are about 18 years apart. Aja brings a unique perspective to parenting. She's worked with hundreds of parents as well as groups through the NICU hospital teams and other organizations supporting families through trauma.
I'm excited to hear how baby wearing will help reduce [00:01:00] parenting stress and strengthen the bonds as well. Welcome, Azja.
Azja Pryor: Thank you so much for having me, Dori. I'm excited to be here.
Dori Durbin: I'm excited to have you on obviously, and I know that with your years of experience as a certified baby wearing educator, our conversation will be especially interesting to the listeners who are considering baby wearing to begin with, and maybe they don't know if they're going to do it right.
They don't even know if they should do it. So what advice do you have for them in making their decision and about what they should wear?
Azja Pryor: Absolutely. So that is the million dollar question for new parents. I think that as when you're pregnant and you're researching like, what gear do I need? A baby carrier will always come up in that like top 10 list, right?
And let's say you try it as a new parent and it doesn't work out the first time your baby hates it, they're screaming, you are frustrated and you just toss it over to the side and say, [00:02:00] that's not for me anymore. That's not, that doesn't work for me. I'm here to tell you all of your parents that baby wearing is for you.
Baby wearing is for everyone. And sometimes you just have to take a breath. Maybe try another day and do it again and don't give up because there are so many benefits to baby wearing. And when we think about all of the stresses of being a new mom and just the sheer fact that our babies are hardwired to be close to us, right?
When you put a baby down, they cry. They want that closeness, especially in that fourth trimester. So I really just, I the transformative power of the connection between new moms and how that can help to balance out that emotion, some of that emotional stress to really help soothe the baby to regulate temperature.
You can all of the benefits of skin to skin that you've heard times 10, right? [00:03:00] Because there's so much more and it's benefiting. The new mom as well as the baby. I think a lot of times we just think of it being a piece of gear where we can be hands free. And I think you and I actually talked about this a little bit more but again, that emotional bonding and, the list of benefits goes on and on.
And these are science backed facts about, the benefits of baby wearing.
Dori Durbin: Yeah, it's funny, we did talk about that before we started filming and one of the things that comes to my mind was the Bjorn carriers were really popular when my kids were little. And I did, I got it because I wanted to go places and have my kids close and secure.
Not even considering the fact that there were all these benefits that were happening that I was completely oblivious to because it was easier for me. But in the same vein, what you said in the very beginning with. They may not like it, you may not like it. I think that is when people quit at first.
Absolutely.
Dori Durbin: Yeah,
Azja Pryor: That's what most of the families that I [00:04:00] work with, most parents who are having difficulties, especially when you're thinking about moms who are in that postpartum phase, maybe they've had a c-section or had a really tough time, during pregnancy and during that postpartum period.
It just, they may not find a place of comfort. So you have that on one end where, mom just can't get a comfort comfortable fit. And then you may have different factors of why the baby is not happy in the carrier. But to that, I say, reach out to a baby wearing consultant or educator.
I myself work with Lila baby. We, for all of our customers, we offer actually one-on-one fit checks. Where we will get on video with the parent and really walk them through it and help them to get an ideal, safe and comfortable experience for them and their babies. So there is help out there.
Don't give up. Please don't give up. The benefits are so worth trying [00:05:00] again. Yeah,
Dori Durbin: that's, I think that's something that, like you said, when you're in the middle of a crying, screaming baby, you are tired, you're emotionally drained, your body hurts. It's one of those things where if you didn't know that you could reach out to somebody for help, that would be really frustrating.
But in my mind's eye, having somebody there see what you're doing and be able to give you feedback right away that's a huge benefit. And. Even more of a reason to try it.
Absolutely. Yeah. Always ask for help. But that's hard. That's hard as a parent, especially in the beginning. Yes.
And I think you, you have to see the benefits before you can make that decision too. One of the things that I think about too is like when I'm writing, and I know this is children's books based, but when I write with my clients, we try to find simple steps or simple routines to make things easier or just make sense to the reader.
And I think that this is something similar to what you're doing too, because it's like these small wins that [00:06:00] parents can have can totally change the family dimen dynamics. It can change some of the stress levels and some of the frustrations that parents have. So knowing that you've worked with the, all these parents and that you've, these carriers have gone into environments that are.
Traumatic, especially like with the NICU units.
What is a simple baby routine that where I'm wearing my baby that maybe could make a huge change in my daily routine that makes life seem less stressful?
Azja Pryor: That's a really good question. On the air, on the airplane when they say, in case of emergency and those oxygen masks come down place yours on first before you help someone else I think that applies.
Across the board, especially when it comes to parenting, and I'm gonna really specifically narrow in on mothers. So I say that because I think that if you are looking for a routine to regulate some of [00:07:00] your stress regulate to really jump into the bonding time that you have with your child when they're very young I'm gonna always prioritize self-care for that mom.
I think that implementing an element some form of self-care each day, whether that's 15, 20 minutes a day, is super important. So whether that means you are putting your baby on your body, carrying them, and you're taking a walk around your neighborhood. A 20 minute walk, and that, that gets you out of the house.
I think that more data is coming out just on the power of walking, right? And just how when we're stressed, get out and walk, because that will help to really also regulate your, your mental wellness. So I'm gonna always say, use that carrier as a piece of gear for your self care. Go and get a cup of [00:08:00] coffee.
Maybe walk around your garden, maybe walk to the park, do something for yourself. Your baby just loves being close to you. Again, there are all of those benefits that you're both getting from one another. And so when I think of daily routines, that's what I, that's where I'm really starting for moms, for new moms.
Go ahead. Really prioritize that self-care, like pencil it in for yourself. Put it on your calendar and set a time and just do it because no one else is going to prioritize it for you. You have to do it for yourself.
Dori Durbin: That's so true and moms are so good at putting everyone else first.
Absolutely.
Dori Durbin: Yeah. That having that time just to walk like you said or to know that you can look forward to, even if it's 10 minutes of just freedom outside, is deal. We were talking a little bit also about the size of these carriers and you know what they can carry as far as child size. And I [00:09:00] asked you how big can the kids be?
And you can still carry them and you giggled a little bit 'cause they go pretty big. Do you wanna talk about that a little bit?
Azja Pryor: Sure. So I think you asked me before which is a really great question because I think most people think you only when they think of baby wearing, they just think of small babies.
So you asked me how long do people baby wear for what age do they go to? And I say it's all relative to one's lifestyle to their emotional connection to baby wearing. We call this extended baby wearing. And I've seen, I personally went to five years old with my daughter. Now this was not something that I was doing every day, but if we would go out on a hike, we're a very active family.
If we didn't bring that carrier, she's gonna be riding piggyback down the hill because little, little legs get tired too. Or if there were times when she wasn't feeling well, she would go and bring me the carrier and [00:10:00] say, uppy, so it's really all relative. We see a number of families who have children, who have special needs, who have certain disabilities.
And maybe without baby wearing, they would be less mobile and less able to see the world as others. Other kids can. There are children who are in wheelchairs and sometimes the baby carrier, a wheelchair may not always be ideal in a certain environment. Or if you have a child who has who's very sensitive in environments, that become very overwhelming for them.
And they need that safe space. Baby wearing and having them close to you, whether it be on your front, your hip, or on your back they just feel safe in that environment. So again, it's all relative, some people may stop at. 18 months or two years, and some people may go well into the preschool years and beyond.
And yes, there are carriers. Lola baby actually has a [00:11:00] toddler carrier that goes up to 60 pounds. So that's what I was able to wear my daughter in until she was five years old. Comfortably. I have to add.
Dori Durbin: Comfortable. Yeah. Yes. That's that. We were joking about, riding on your back and I'm thinking, I remember the days my arms hurt, my hips hurt, trying to carry your kids around and that you're right, little legs get tired and.
By the time we were done, I wasn't sure I could walk the next day. So like to hear it's comfortable. That's huge.
Azja Pryor: Yeah. That's the most important thing. It's comfortable and there's so many different styles, one style does not apply to everyone. Again, different lifestyles, different body types, may prefer different style carriers, but it's, it can be very comfortable.
It should be comfortable. If it's not comfortable, then I would suggest again, reaching out for help or maybe researching a different style of carrier because the whole point is for it to be comfortable. But yes, I lived by baby wearing for at least five years. I say, if you think that you'll be holding your kid in your [00:12:00] arms or on your back, then.
Probably wanna keep a carrier close by
Dori Durbin: you. Actually, when you were talking about environments. When my kids were little, my husband made it to the Boston Marathon, so he qualified for it. And so we went to Boston, not even really worried about it. And at the time, I think I had a 4-year-old and a 2-year-old.
And if any of you know what I'm talking about, it is mass chaos people everywhere. And I remember just hanging on with a death grip onto both kids and thinking, how am I going to do this and find him and keep them together. So in that moment, that would've been amazing. That would've been a game changer for you could have in the front, in the back.
Azja Pryor: Yeah. I remember a time, and I don't know if you remember this too, and occasionally I'll actually still see them when the parents have the lead on the kids. Yeah, sure. Yeah. And the backpack. And I remember like seeing a huge uproar over that. Like parents were having their kids on [00:13:00] leashes, and I say everyone, parents, how they parent, how they see best, but I think that in certain situations, baby wearing again is another alternative, because yes, if you are in. In the area of the Boston Marathon, or you're traveling somewhere and you're in a major city and there's a lot of people we know, little people can be very curious. They're fast, you are, your mind is, surveying everything around you and paying people and just so many different things that, that many times is just the safest place for little ones to be.
Dori Durbin: Yeah. I think another benefit that you mentioned, and I would love to go back to is that whole not only the connectedness, but the communication aspect of it. The fact that you're actually giving them more benefits, even developmentally, that we haven't even touched on with them being able to watch your face.
And can you talk a [00:14:00] little bit about that as well?
Azja Pryor: Absolutely, I would love to. Because one misconception that I have come across many times with baby wearing, even in my own personal family, is that people actually think the opposite. Instead of all of the developmental benefits, people think that you are actually delaying your child by wearing them, delaying them from maybe crawling, walking, spoiling them too much.
So I hear all of that, but it's actually quite the opposite. There are so many developmental benefits to baby wearing. So beyond the connection and the closeness and the bonding beyond being able to feed in your carrier, when I was first breastfeeding my daughter, sitting for 30 minutes on the couch or in our chair.
To feed. I loved it and I missed those days. But once we were able to combine that with her in the carrier, oh, it was a game changer for [00:15:00] us, so yes, there are many benefits, and as you said, like communication. So your baby, it's that closeness your baby is seeing, your facial expressions as you are reacting as you're speaking.
They're watching your mouth, they're hearing the words, they're forming, all of that. Perception of communication in a very close in a close way that not to say that other babies who are not baby worn are not gonna get this. Absolutely. But there is a benefit to the closeness of it and the perception of that.
And so many times, again, instead of development being delayed, I actually see it earlier in some babies. Okay? Now, this is not all, but I actually see that earlier in some babies. I see babies certainly walking earlier who are baby warm consistently. And there's, and I have a theory [00:16:00] behind that because tummy time, right?
Tummy time, as soon as you have the baby, day one in the hospital. They start talking to you about doing what? 10 minutes of tummy time a day. Baby wearing is actually. Tummy time in a vertical form because the babies are still using those muscles. They are actually, especially as they're growing, they go from the little rounded back.
They're, they then start to use that trunk and that's muscle control. They're holding their head up because now they want to look around and see, and so you're getting more of that because usually for most babies, not all, I don't know, maybe there are some babies that love tummy time. I haven't met one yet.
But you lay them on the floor and they're screaming and crying and you're counting down that 10 minutes and they pick 'em up and you put them somewhere, put them in their swing or, in their rocker or whatever it may be. But if you are wearing your baby for an hour at a time, that's an hour of tummy time [00:17:00] that they're getting.
And they're really strengthening those muscles. And so again, we start to see these babies walking really early or hitting certain milestones. Definitely on target like within the range or sometimes earlier. So yes, there are so many benefits developmental benefits to wearing your babies.
Dori Durbin: So that closeness that you were talking about too is really interesting because since I'm a children's book coach and I love the children's books, I see families connecting and sometimes it's that children's book that helps to open that up. But I'm just also thinking that baby wearing isn't that different because you actually are using the baby wearing, even in these traumatic environments that we talked about a little bit at the beginning, being in the neonatal intensive units, they're using baby wearing to help the kids that are there for reasons beyond even it's more of like a chemical dependency.
So you share some of that [00:18:00] with us because I think that's fascinating.
Azja Pryor: Yes. So I actually learned about neonatal abstinence syndrome. Okay? Now, these are also known as NAS. Now these are babies who are born addicted to opioids, and at birth they begin to go through withdrawals, withdrawal. And it is horrible.
It's something that you wouldn't want to see anyone, let alone a small, innocent baby going through. And so there was a nurse that actually had reached out to me about this. She was hands-on working with these babies, and she said that these babies, many times, and I believe she said day three is typically the worst for the withdrawals.
But that power of closeness. Was very beneficial for these babies, [00:19:00] specifically for all babies, but specifically for these babies who are going through the withdrawals. And. Being a staff of maybe what, five to 10 to 15, however many, they can't always hold the baby because they're dealing with so many, unfortunately this is an epidemic that is just taking off, and it's been this way for many years.
And so she felt like baby wearing, because she herself was a baby wearer. She had a daughter who she still to this, I think she was saying her daughter at the time was like a year and a half or two years, and she would still wear her in a carrier. So she knew the power of it. So she blindly reached out to Lila baby and she said, Hey, this is what's happening.
We know that baby wearing would help. In this situation, us, the staff, the caring staff that, is doing all that they can to better do their jobs and to better serve and benefit these babies. And just having that closeness was so beneficial. [00:20:00] So yes, in addition to being hands free just that skin to skin is also helping to regulate their ba the baby's temperatures to help calm them down, to alleviate some of that emotional stress.
They're stressed out enough, right? They're going through withdrawals. So all of those transformative benefits we saw, as being very beneficial in, in that NICU unit for in babies dealing with NAS.
Dori Durbin: That's so amazing to think that something as simple as. Just, a carrier Is able to make such a big change in a baby's life and the people who are helping them. That's really amazing. Absolutely. Yeah. Is there a particular comeback story that you've heard of that has been because of just changing this one thing? Like baby wearing a comeback story? Yeah.
Like maybe a parent was really struggling with something in [00:21:00] particular and they started to baby wear and the after, a before and after kind of picture.
Azja Pryor: Yeah, so I've seen I've seen some pretty challenging fit. Fit issues with baby wearing and certainly have, been able to help and that always feels so good.
But I think, I remember one mom whose son was autistic and he had, he was very sensitive to being around a lot of people and he was three years old. And I actually suggested to her that, so she, so let me back up. So she was, it was very challenging for her to go out, like she could only go out at certain times and to bring her son out because he was just really he just did not do well.
It was very overwhelming for him. And so I actually suggested baby wearing, I said, suggested that she get a carrier and she try it. This is someone who I knew personally [00:22:00] and she did. She came back to me almost in tears saying, thank you so much. This has literally changed how we can move throughout our day and throughout our lives.
When she starts to sense that he's getting to that point, she immediately puts him up on her and he is comfortable. It's like a, it's like a hug. It's like a gentle hug. It's that comfort. So to see a mom go from fearing to take her child out in the world to feeling confident, with this piece of gear to go out into the world and enjoy it with her child is one of those moments that like, I'll never forget.
It was definitely very heartwarming.
Dori Durbin: That's huge. This gotta feel so good to be representing a company that's doing something again, that is just changing the lives of the families that are using it.
Azja Pryor: Yes, absolutely. Doing amazing things. [00:23:00]
Dori Durbin: Okay, so I have to ask you, I know that we've been talking about kids books, but in character wise, do you have somebody who stands out in your mind as a person who has influenced you into doing what you're doing now?
Because this is not something, it's not it's a career that's really unique, right? Yeah, so no
Azja Pryor: one person, I would say the ancestors. I think that for hundreds and thousands of years before we got to this point, it was just a place of survival for, for moms and babies and, so again, when we think of just the convenience of it, oh, I can be hands free. Maybe you have multiple children and you have, now you have a new little one and you're thinking, oh, I'll just be hands free. But it's really so much more than that. We've already talked about many of the benefits.
And so I think just seeing how it just really was a way of [00:24:00] life, since the first people came down from the tree, the babies were on their backs. So I, I think that's my inspiration. But for myself, I truly organically fell into what I'm doing. I was gifted a baby carrier from my baby shower, and started wearing my daughter right away, was actually very fortunate that she loved it right away.
I think she was about four weeks old the first time we put her in a carrier. It was something that not only myself, but my husband did as well. And and that's another thing for fathers, for grandparents, for caregivers, this is also a very powerful way to increase the bonding, and so luckily our daughter took to it. Like I said, it just became a complete game changer in our lives. We were very active. I was active throughout my pregnancy. It didn't stop when she got here, and now we have this piece of gear that allowed us to take her. So I fell in love with it. Then I came [00:25:00] across a little baby and it's.
It's all, the rest is history.
Dori Durbin: That's fantastic. And I actually, before we had our interview, I looked up baby wearing and was shocked at how many cultures use baby wearing that I never really paid attention to before. And like you said, it's been year, it's not like it's brand new. Like the concept isn't, the gear is much, much, much better and much more efficient for everyday life.
But I was shocked at how long it really has been in the picture
Azja Pryor: absolutely. It's been, some of the indigenous peoples have been doing it for. Centuries. So it's been around a very long time. I love seeing the popularity of it grow Now. I love that. I'm like, I just feel like baby wearing is the gift that keeps on giving.
And so I love to see our, current, modern parents embracing baby wearing. And so the more we can speak about it and some of [00:26:00] the benefits and calming the nerves of people who maybe feel like it's not for them or it didn't work, or eh, I don't know, I don't have, I, I don't have the patience to figure it out.
Take a breath, it's for you, you may need help, but, just reach out and there's resources available.
Dori Durbin: That's so good. Okay. Let me just say I loved what we've talked about in this conversation and we're getting close to the end, but I think listeners, if you haven't already figured this out, you need to follow Azja Pryor.
You need to look up LILLE Baby and Moby Wrap as well. Yes, follow them. You've got amazing Instagram videos with how to do everything, and they're beautiful. They're beautiful. Yes. I'm jealous. I might have to get one for my dog. That's, but anyone half thinking about it. Look at that first and try it.
Do the things that Asha is saying, ask for help before you [00:27:00] say no, because I think it would be such a game changer for pretty much anyone who has kids who are little like that or bigger up to 65 pounds.
Azja Pryor: Absolutely. Yes. So yes, you can always check out our Instagram at LILLE Baby and as you mentioned at Moby Wrap.
And yes, if you have any questions about which carrier is right for you or you're having trouble getting comfortable in your carrier, you think it's just not for you, please reach out to us. Send us a dm email the baby customer service. As I said, we do offer those one-on-one fit checks to customers which can be super helpful especially for those new parents or anyone new to baby wearing.
Dori Durbin: Yeah, it's a game changer, really. Absolutely. Yeah. I have one last question, and so as we wrap up, I want you to think back to a time when you were deciding to do baby wearing. What advice might you give [00:28:00] parents who are at that very crucial deciding point right now?
Azja Pryor: Okay. Research. Research.
There's so much information out there. There's podcasts like Dori's and there's so much information. You go to Amazon, you've got reviews, you have, questions and answers research. The way I found LILLE Baby, and again, this is truly, I organically fell into this position.
LILLE Baby had an online community. I joined before I decided which baby care I was gonna add to my registry because I wanted to see what other parents were. I was in a lot of parenting groups, but when I found out they had one and it was amazing. It was it just felt so supportive and great questions and videos and all of the things.
And so I felt like that was probably, a product I wanted to try. So whether it's Lil Baby or something else, find a [00:29:00] carrier that works for you. Research it, look at reviews, look at YouTube videos. If you have other parent friends, ask them what did they use? There's a lot of information out there, but yeah, and sometimes it can be too much, right?
So just take it in small bits and pieces. But definitely do your research because again, not every carrier style is gonna fit everyone. And there are a vast difference between the different carriers and there's a lot out there, but, really research, YouTube, social media, and Google and, look for that, look for a baby wearing educator if you need to, if you need extra help.
And they can, many times there's baby wearing banks where you can try on different styles. Yeah, so the power of online, you can find it all online. Something that's close to you. They can find you as well. Absolutely. Ask you questions.
Azja Pryor: Yes, you can find me online. [00:30:00] Yes, and like I said, you can find, our videos also on YouTube as well.
We have a lot of videos.
Dori Durbin: I just feel like there's no reason for somebody who is half even considering it to not dig and find out. So I think you've given them so many great resources, so many great reasons to really consider baby wearing and if they're at all hesitant. I think just digging in a little bit is going to cure that hesitant ness.
Oh gosh. Thank you so much, Azja. I really appreciate your information, your honesty, and your time today with our listeners.
Azja Pryor: Thank you so much, Dori. I really enjoyed speaking with you today.
Dori Durbin: Thank you. Okay, everybody check out the notes, get online and follow the links. Thank you, Azja. Thank you so much.
