That's Good Parenting

How to Play Without Guilt & Connect Deeper with Your Kids with Jill Lerman EP 109

• Dori Durbin • Season 3 • Episode 109

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Do you struggle with guilt and anxiety about your child's playtime? Are there days you just don't have time to play or you just cannot handle playing the same game AGAIN? In this episode, "How to Play Without Guilt & Connect Deeper with Your Kids, with Jill Lerman," as play and parenting coach Jill Lerman joins host Dori Durbin to discuss how to transform common parental fears about play into opportunities for connection, growth, and stress relief.

This episode explores:

  • The real meaning of play and why it's crucial for children's development
  • How to overcome the guilt of not always wanting to play with your child
  • The benefits of independent play and why it's a gift for everyone
  • Practical tips for setting up simple, engaging play invitations using everyday objects
  • How to let your child lead the play and why you should resist the urge to shape their play
  • Strategies for creating a playful environment in your home, no matter how busy you are
  • Using play as a tool to combat parental burnout and rediscover the joy in parenting

Jill provides expert insights based on over 15 years of experience as an early childhood educator and helps parents shift their perspective from feeling obligated to play to embracing it as a powerful tool for connection and growth. Whether you have a toddler or an older child, this episode will inspire you to find more joy in the simple moments of play and build a stronger, more fulfilling relationship with your child.

About Jill Lerman:

Jill Lerman is a play and parenting coach, early childhood educator, play expert, and mom to a toddler. She helps overwhelmed parents and caregivers connect and engage with their little ones through simple invitations to play. Jill believes that play is the key to fostering creativity, bonding, and independent play. She also works as a play expert and consultant for brands, teaching classes, running workshops, consulting on product development, and providing activity ideas.

Connect with Jill:

More about Dori Durbin:

Dori Durbin is a Christian wife, mom, author, illustrator, and a kids' book coach who after experiencing a life-changing illness, quickly switched gears to follow her dream. She creates kids' books to provide a fun and safe passageway for kids and parents to dig deeper and experience empowered lives. Dori also coaches non-fiction authors, professionals, and aspiring authors to "kid-size" their content into informational and engaging kids' books! Find out more here:
 https://www.doridurbin.com/

Follow Dori:


Intro for TDP (version 2)


[00:00:00] Dori Durbin: As kids, most of us could never play enough. But as parents, sometimes we can't even envision playing all day. It just sounds exhausting. So why is that? And how important is it for parents and kids to play throughout their days? Guess what? I have help for you today. On today's episode, I have Jill Lerman.

[00:00:24] Dori Durbin: She is a play and parenting coach with over 15 years of experience as an early childhood educator. Jill is passionate about empowering parents to connect with their children through play, creating environments that foster creativity, bonding, and independent play for even more joyful parenting experiences.

[00:00:42] Dori Durbin: So welcome Jill. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to chat with you. I love your topic. I can't play enough and I know it is just so scary because they have these fears and misconceptions that kind of follow them with play. So [00:01:00] do you run across those in your coaching? And if so, what are some of those fears and misconceptions?

[00:01:06] Jill Lerman: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Gosh, there's so many. The first thing that comes to mind when you ask that question is just the idea of the guilt around not always wanting to play with your child. And parents that feel like there must be something wrong with me. I must be a bad parent. And just spiral in that.

[00:01:27] Jill Lerman: guilt and that overwhelm. And that's one of the biggest misconceptions, I would say, because actually we really want to find a balance between fostering independent play with our child and interacting and connecting with them. Now, something really important, and this kind of ties into that, is that there are many ways that we can connect with our children.

[00:01:49] Jill Lerman: Play is one of those ways. So something that I really like to say to parents that maybe have some of the fears that you mentioned is, hey, it's about connection and there are lots of different ways [00:02:00] we can connect. We can connect through cooking or sharing a meal and snack together. We can connect by reading together, going on a walk together.

[00:02:07] Jill Lerman: Play can be a piece of that, but if that is not for you, or you feel unsure about it, or you have trouble really being present and enjoying it, at the end of the day, the connection is really the goal. If that means that play becomes more of an independent skill, and we'll talk about the importance of independent play next that's okay and actually beneficial for your children.

[00:02:29] Jill Lerman: That would, that's one thing that comes to mind right off the bat. Another that comes to mind is that People feel guilty or badly about the independent play piece. And that actually is a gift that you can give to your child. It is such an incredibly important thing for our children to be having independent play time.

[00:02:51] Jill Lerman: And the reason for this, there are many, but one that comes to mind as it pertains to the adult is that. When we're playing with our kids, we, [00:03:00] even with the best intentions, change the shape of the play. Our skill sets are not equal, right? We see things in a different way than our children see things. They see possibilities we don't.

[00:03:11] Jill Lerman: We tend to steer things in a direction, even again with the best intention. And so something about our involvement makes it that they don't have as many opportunities for creativity, for problem solving. And so much more for working through moments of frustration and difficulty. I could go on and on, but I think that if as parents, we instead take that fear and that worry and think about it as this actually is something great for them and it's good for me too.

[00:03:44] Jill Lerman: That can really change everything. So that's another big misconception that independent play is something we should feel bad about doing as opposed to something that we should celebrate. And actually feel like we're really excited about and a gift we're giving to our children. 

[00:03:59] Dori Durbin: So [00:04:00] when kids are playing independently, are you still present or are you just in the room quietly?

[00:04:05] Dori Durbin: What does that look like for parents? 

[00:04:08] Jill Lerman: Yeah, it's a great question and I think another big misconception because I think we often we see things on social media and independent play is portrayed as our child runs off in the other room and for hours on end they entertain themselves. Some children yes and it's a skill we can build toward right because independent play is a skill.

[00:04:27] Jill Lerman: skill that can be learned and taught the same way that many other skills are learned and taught. Another thing is personality and temperament does weigh into this. So while every child can learn to play independently, there are some that are going to be more natural at it and that it will come more naturally to than others, right?

[00:04:46] Jill Lerman: This also is going to depend on age. Age and stage independent play is a skill we can start to introduce from infancy, but the way it's going to look is going to be different over time. So I would say as a general rule that most [00:05:00] children cannot get really into their independent play without an adult.

[00:05:04] Jill Lerman: an adult caregiver nearby. And that's something really important to think about because independent play does not mean the adult is gone. It can but often it just means we're not as active a participant. Our role is in more of an observational role, like an active observer. We're there, we're You know, we're present if our child, wants to show us something.

[00:05:29] Jill Lerman: I also think it's a great time for parents to get a lot of information about their child's play style and their interests. So I think watching is actually really great information for us as parents, but. I would say for the most productive and engaged independent play, most parents have to be there for that to happen.

[00:05:48] Jill Lerman: Now that often means getting creative about where play happens in your home. So one of my favorite tips for parents is, let's think about where you're spending the most time. If that's not your playroom, [00:06:00] That's okay. My daughter often is playing on the floor of the kitchen near me, right?

[00:06:05] Jill Lerman: So it's about us kind of thinking about where are we kind of spending most of our time and how can we make plays safely happen and accessible in that area? 

[00:06:15] Dori Durbin: So interesting. And so to go back to what you said earlier to the concept of how we would shape their play and put limits on it. It kills me. It absolutely kills me, but I also see why we do it because we're Experience and bringing our experiences, but even in the independent play, we need to let them do the guiding, right? 

[00:06:36] Jill Lerman: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, and I think an adult's role goes more into, providing scaffolding right? Providing a big part of the work that I do with families Is helping with play prompts. So for example, I have a, like a low cost monthly membership.

[00:06:55] Jill Lerman: And one of the things that the members receive is a play plan every month with the open ended ideas [00:07:00] for kids from infancy to about six, seven years old. And part of the reason for this is that. Often our kids need a little help getting started. They just need that little something to spark their play.

[00:07:12] Jill Lerman: So sometimes our role as the parent or the adult in this comes in that. Maybe we set something out in an unexpected location. Maybe we put out two things together that our child is not used to seeing, but is very much in line with their current play styles and their interests, right? That's where we come into it.

[00:07:30] Jill Lerman: It doesn't mean we don't play an important role. It doesn't mean that we don't get involved with them sometimes. Sometimes even we can get started with them and back away, especially if your child is new to independent play. But I think that's a great way to think about it, that you're actually providing a really important piece of the puzzle.

[00:07:45] Jill Lerman: It just might not be the puzzle that we think we need to provide. 

[00:07:51] Dori Durbin: So I am going back to when I was little and we had a box full of costumes and we would spend hours in these costumes [00:08:00] mix max, nothing made sense when we got dressed. It was just crazy. We're using. pieces of clothing that were not meant for the particular body part, right?

[00:08:08] Dori Durbin: So I'm even thinking like that's the kind of stuff that it's like the parent might be there, they might be watching, they might be enjoying and interacting with what the kids come up with. Yes. But not necessarily saying, oh, that's not in the right spot. And what is, instead, maybe what would you say instead?

[00:08:22] Jill Lerman: Yeah. So it's as you're saying this, I'm thinking to myself, not only with my own daughter, but as a classroom teacher, because my background's in early childhood education and kind of getting into the mindset of rather than a child coming over, let's say they have on, I don't know, a tutu and a fireman's jacket, right?

[00:08:42] Jill Lerman: And they come over to you. An impulse, I think might be in that situation to be like, Oh my gosh, you're a firefighter ballerina. Oh my gosh, you're right. And then we're deciding what we think that is and writing that story. And what I would encourage a parent to maybe think about instead is to see what happens if [00:09:00] you're like, Oh wow, I'm noticing you have on, there's something around your waist that looks like maybe a tutu or a skirt.

[00:09:07] Jill Lerman: And then it looks like you have some kind of jacket on. Can you tell me more about what you're wearing. So now we're leaving this as if they came back and instead it's something totally different. They're a dinosaur. We didn't now change the shape of what they're doing.

[00:09:21] Jill Lerman: Now they're directing this and then they'll respond and then we can, respond to what they say. Oh, wow. Can you tell me more about that? Wow. What is a ballerina dinosaur? Do I wonder, right? So this is where I think and it's such a small tweak and it's like, why would you know?

[00:09:38] Jill Lerman: And there's, look, if you're hearing this, there's nothing wrong. If you're taking an active interest in what your child's doing in whichever way you do, that's ultimately what it's about. So if you did ask the, are you a firefighter ballerina? This also is fine. But if we're thinking about, how can we let their ideas drive the play and how can we be more supportive of that?

[00:09:57] Jill Lerman: That's a really great way to do it. [00:10:00]

[00:10:00] Dori Durbin: I love that. I love the idea of just letting them tell you their story because they've got a story going in there. Yes. And they're basically producing a play in their own mind when they're getting dressed. Completely. Yeah. Completely. Yeah. And it's basically allowing them to tell you the story without interjecting and shaping it for them.

[00:10:18] Jill Lerman: That's right. And I also think something important for parents to hear because the same thing could apply. Your child is, working on something with their magnetic tiles or they drew or painted a picture, right? We so often have the impulse to report back what we think we see. And I always would encourage.

[00:10:34] Jill Lerman: Parents to instead maybe take a look and I love I notice right statements or I wonder statements right are so productive, not only in play, but in emotional regulation and so many other pieces of parenting. But in this case, instead looking at something and be like. I'm noticing there are a lot of blue blocks here.

[00:10:56] Jill Lerman: I'm wondering what you're working on, right? So we're leaving [00:11:00] them the door open for them to share. Another thing, guys, that I would say is sometimes we don't have to say anything, right? We can just be our presence. They will feel the connection of your active observation without your words.

[00:11:14] Jill Lerman: And while they're working and they're in their flow, we can let them be in their flow. And then when we've transitioned now into snack or lunch, then we can use that time to talk about, I noticed when you were building, you were doing X, Y, Z. Can you tell me about what you were working on?

[00:11:27] Jill Lerman: That almost is even better in a reflective capacity because now we're just letting them be in it when they're in it. And be in that focused, engaged moment when they're in their flow, 

[00:11:37] Dori Durbin: so we're talking about parents who are highly motivated right now, who are seeing opportunities to connect with the kids.

[00:11:42] Dori Durbin: What if you are so dog tired and really the efforts of playing and coming up with questions and things like that, they seem overwhelming. Do you have any suggestions for those parents that are just, It seems like too much right now. 

[00:11:57] Jill Lerman: Oh, yeah. Look, what's I think, amazing [00:12:00] about, for example, independent play, to come back to that, is that is something, even a tool I use personally, and for many of the families I support, to help reduce burnout and reduce overwhelm.

[00:12:12] Jill Lerman: Because this is an opportunity where your child can engage on their own. There's something incredibly developmentally beneficial happening there, which we we talked a little bit about that already, but it also gives you a minute to fulfill your own needs to refill your cup, to take care of that thing that you needed to take care of for work or around the house or otherwise to just sit and read your book.

[00:12:34] Jill Lerman: So it's actually really an important piece of the puzzle, I think for parental and particularly maternal mental health too. So I would say, thinking about it as like again, coming back to this is a gift I give to me. This is a gift I give to my child and working that independent playtime in to give yourself some of that time back for you.

[00:12:57] Jill Lerman: I often will tell parents that [00:13:00] are looking to foster more independent play at home. If we can find a place in the day to give our Children 5 to 10 minutes. Five to 10 minutes of our undivided attention while we're not also doing something else simultaneously, right? Like I always think about myself like with octopus arms doing, like eight different things at once.

[00:13:19] Jill Lerman: If we can, our phone is down, we're not doing something else. We let them choose what it is they want to do, a board game, play, whatever game they're currently into. Maybe it's reading something together, whatever it is, and just giving them that five to ten minutes of our undivided attention and connection.

[00:13:36] Jill Lerman: It goes a long way. It goes a longer way than you might think. And then when that cup is filled, and we've built some of that, it makes it a lot easier for then us to step away when we want them to play on their own. So if we can find that pocket of time, and then work into our routine, maybe it's a that works really well in your schedule.

[00:13:57] Jill Lerman: I know for me personally, a good time of day is [00:14:00] like when I'm preparing dinner, it's like a transitional time. I can set something out for my daughter. Again, we're talking simple under three minutes to set up. Not like crazy Pinterest, perfect. Or maybe I put her favorite figurine of a character of the moment next to her blocks.

[00:14:15] Jill Lerman: I set it up near me and I say right now is your time to play. I wonder if you can make. Some kind of house for Daniel Tiger and his family. I can't wait to see what you come up with. I'm going to be right over here. I'm preparing dinner, right? I'm going to give a clear thing of this is what I will be doing.

[00:14:33] Jill Lerman: This is what you will be doing. I think it's also helpful. If you can say when I'm done with X, Y, Z, I will come over and see what you're up to, if that's relevant and really working that in and the same thing, it could be to do something in the case, like the example I'm giving yourself a minute counts as doing something.

[00:14:52] Jill Lerman: If you're someone who's experiencing a lot of overwhelm and burnout, and you just need a minute to sit and sip your tea and [00:15:00] read a magazine or read a book. It is completely relevant to set something out in the same way. I'm going to take a few minutes to read my book. This is your time to play, right?

[00:15:09] Jill Lerman: I'm going to be right here. So you see where this is going, but I think you can actually use play as a tool to support you in the overwhelm and not put the pressure on yourself that you have to be directly involved. And not put the pressure on yourself that you've just set up something extravagant. It's simple. Use the things you have. This is again, like why I started my membership, because it doesn't always come naturally. I'm a teacher. My ideas don't stop. But but that isn't everyone's thing and that's completely okay, but there are resources available to then help give you some inspiration and ideas of how you can set something out in a way that might be engaging and follow your child's current 

[00:15:46] Dori Durbin: So you mentioned 5 to 10 minutes.

[00:15:49] Dori Durbin: What, and maybe there's not, maybe it depends on a lot, but is there an average amount of play that a child should get in a day? And I'm assuming too, there's some elements [00:16:00] of age that are going to fall into that as well. 

[00:16:02] Jill Lerman: Absolutely. And it's such a great question. And look, I don't, my feeling is if our child is not, Eating, sleeping getting a diaper change, out running an errand, doing something with you that, is obviously, there are different parts of a routine, It should always be play.

[00:16:19] Jill Lerman: To me, play is the default whenever we're not doing those other things. It should always be now what we're coming back to now. Look, play looks. A million different ways. Play is not always sitting quietly, stacking blocks. Play is not, always the ideas that we have in our mind. It can look like that.

[00:16:38] Jill Lerman: It often looks very different, particularly if you have a toddler at home. That we could have a whole conversation just about that. Maybe we'll talk about it a little, but. I think that the default to me is always play. If we're not doing one of these other things, there is some kind of play happening.

[00:16:55] Jill Lerman: But that could be You know, we're running around outside or on a scooter [00:17:00] or a bike, right? Maybe we're like outside collecting leaves and sticks. All of these things can be placed sitting in coloring. They're just so many different versions of what it could be. And in terms of what, how much of each play type should be happening.

[00:17:15] Jill Lerman: I don't really look at it like that. I just look at what is your child's current play style? What is their current interest play passion? As long as they're playing whatever that looks like, even if that means they are doing the same thing every single time they sit down, as long as it's engaging them, that to me is enough, now, you mentioned a couple times play style. What do you mean by that? Yeah, it's a good question. So, there are different ways that our children play. When we think about what is play, right? What does that even mean? It's really going to be anything that is holding our child's interests and engaging them.

[00:17:52] Jill Lerman: Now that might mean, again, that it's not looking like play. Sitting with their toys. Sometimes it's more, they're [00:18:00] exploring something or figuring something out, and it doesn't necessarily look the way that we imagine. And that's okay. I think that the key piece of it is really going to be, is it holding their attention?

[00:18:11] Jill Lerman: Is it engaging them? And, are they Is it captivating them in that moment? And then the way it looks might be different dependent on the child's age and their current interests. So some examples of play styles might be a child who's really into kind of constructive play and engineering, connecting and disconnecting train tracks or pieces, figuring out how those things work and stacking and making creations, right?

[00:18:38] Jill Lerman: This would be one play style that comes to mind for me. Maybe we have a little creator who loves to, their art area is their favorite area. Their way of playing is making different types of things, coloring, stickers, masking tape, things of that nature. Another play style would be a child that is more into a physical play.

[00:18:59] Jill Lerman: And [00:19:00] that might mean running around outside, climbing, jumping, riding a bike, riding a scooter. Sometimes this also ties into as a child gets older, more competitive play. So doing things like playing on a sports team something of that nature. We have children that get really into exploring and that can mean so many different things.

[00:19:21] Jill Lerman: Sometimes it's just walking around outside and seeing what they find. Sometimes it's, looking at something and the way it works rather than playing with it in the way that we might traditionally imagine. So there, and there are so many more that we could get into and unpack, but. I think a really important part of understanding what might engage our child the most is like looking at the way that they tend to interact with materials and what are the things that they tend to gravitate toward.

[00:19:48] Jill Lerman: And children are giving us information about this from infancy, Tori. My, I like to tell this story because my daughter, when she was like maybe four months old, it was like peak pandemic. I was [00:20:00] wearing sweat pants every day. And I, she was obsessed with the draw strings on our sweatshirts.

[00:20:06] Jill Lerman: When I'd lean over her for a diaper change or something like that, her eyes would just get so wide. She was just captivated by it. The shadows they would create, how the shadows would move when the strings moved. And I started to realize she was more interested in that than the toy that was, next to her, that like perfect.

[00:20:24] Jill Lerman: And look, this is what I do for a living. I knew all the quote, right toys to get. She was so much more interested in that. Then those. So it was like, okay, how do I translate that into a play experience? So for us, that was, I just tied some ribbon and string from her play gym. I took down the things that were hanging and hung that.

[00:20:43] Jill Lerman: And when I tell you that kept her interest, she would just. Sit, reach and bat at it, grasp for it. It helps with her fine motor skills so much at that age. And it's because it followed what she was currently into. We can do that at every age and stage. [00:21:00] If you have a toddler right now that is driving you crazy, going and dumping out all of their toys from the bins, rather than actually playing with any of them.

[00:21:08] Jill Lerman: I have some good news and bad news that's playing right now. That is the stage of their play that they're in. So rather than fighting it, I would be looking at that and thinking huh, they're in this dumping stage. What play experience can I set up that follows that setting the boundary of, we are not going to dump.

[00:21:26] Jill Lerman: Every single content of your toy bin like that's not going to work, but how can I take that and translate that into a place set up, which might look at a basket of things that they can dump and fill right a laundry basket filled of rolled socks that they can dump out and put back in. Maybe that's water play where we're transferring things from one container to another.

[00:21:47] Jill Lerman: These are just things coming off the top of my head. But we can figure out the current play style they're in by just watching them and seeing the information they're giving us. 

[00:21:57] Dori Durbin: That's awesome. Yeah. You're giving [00:22:00] me so many memories of moments where I was like frustrated, as a parent. Oh yeah. My word.

[00:22:05] Dori Durbin: Why are we doing this again? Again. But then down the road, my kids are in college and I look back and I'm like, wow, they did that when they were little and look what they're doing right now. It's there's like parallels between the two. That's 

[00:22:17] Jill Lerman: right. That's right. And there is so much learning that's happening.

[00:22:22] Jill Lerman: Even in the things that maybe to us seem purposeless, and I think if we can see the purpose in it, and just find a way to put that energy into something, one, that's safe, and two, that is not going to be like, totally disruptive, because we do have to think about ourselves to and our own that just contributes to the overwhelm that I think so many parents are feeling right.

[00:22:46] Jill Lerman: And I think if we can find that happy medium, that's like the sweet spot of parenting. I don't know about you, but. The days that I can say yes more are the are my most joyful [00:23:00] days in parenting. Now, that doesn't mean that my daughter just gets to do every single thing she wants and, she runs the show.

[00:23:06] Jill Lerman: No, there, of course, are still boundaries that are being set. But I have to constantly be asking myself, and I always say this to the families I work with, too. Does it have to be a no? And if it does, then it does. But is there a yes in here and what it, what can that yes be? And that's picking our battles.

[00:23:26] Jill Lerman: This is true in play. This is true in every area of parenting. My daughter this morning went out for a walk in a full, a head to toe unicorn onesie. Like she asked if she could wear it. I'm thinking all the reasons why this is not appropriate doesn't really work. It's not really whether all the no's were immediately my initial response.

[00:23:45] Jill Lerman: And then I was just like, why? Does it really matter? Does it? And in this case it didn't. And she was so happy. It was such a win for her, which then in turn felt like a win for me. So I think, we can find these moments in our [00:24:00] play certainly. And, parenting in general too, and it just makes it.

[00:24:04] Jill Lerman: So much more joyful for everyone, I think. 

[00:24:06] Dori Durbin: Yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting because when you're talking about the stress part of it, and what I hear you saying is parents, if they let themselves be curious instead of being right. Let yourself be curious about what your kid enjoys and not worry about this isn't real.

[00:24:23] Dori Durbin: This isn't something that's productive. It's not this, it's not that. This is not the way they're supposed to be using this 

[00:24:30] Jill Lerman: thing. Yeah. And look again, it's not, it's such a natural thing. I think we all do it. So it's like a retraining of the brain, but I think that, when we can come from a place of curiosity.

[00:24:44] Jill Lerman: And not judgment in play, certainly, but really just in parenting. Period. I think that there's just such an opportunity for us in terms of understanding our child better and honestly, and ourselves. But [00:25:00] also, I think we're modeling for them a really important life skill, which is to approach other people from a place of curiosity and not judgment.

[00:25:08] Jill Lerman: Can you imagine what the world would be like, right? If that's what everyone did, it would be such a more loving and peaceful and joyful experience. Place like I, I know maybe it sounds silly but I really feel like that is at the root of what we all need more of. So I think if we can model that from, for our child, if that is the way that we are approaching them, that will be the way that they approach others in the world to and taking that pause before I have a lot of reflexive, no, that pours out of me like just that the initial response, like it just flies out.

[00:25:43] Jill Lerman: And. Just working really hard, and I don't always get it right, but at taking that pause first and looking at us like now, look, if it's a matter of safety, no, that is just that's a hard, no, a hard stop. I'm not going to let you do that. And this is why, but, a lot of [00:26:00] times it's does it have to be a no and something I comment to come back to your 1st question of our conversation, something I commonly see with a lot of families is that.

[00:26:09] Jill Lerman: Things are being cut off before they even have a chance to begin. And if we can just, even if the one change that happens is that pause, so much more play and engagement starts to happen just from that alone, because I'm not stopping it before it starts. I'm instead coming from a place of a, Oh it's not maybe what I thought they would do, but they seem really into it.

[00:26:33] Jill Lerman: It's not hurting anybody. It's not, Do I have to stop it? You know what? I don't think so. And trusting 

[00:26:39] Dori Durbin: That's enough. I'm curious, this is not a question I prepped you for, but I'm really curious. As you're working with parents, and they're getting more and more relaxed about letting their kids truly appreciate and enjoy play, do you find that the parent themselves starts to have more possibilities open, and more opportunities where they're, like, [00:27:00] thinking a little bigger?

[00:27:01] Dori Durbin: The limited? 

[00:27:03] Jill Lerman: 100 percent 100 percent that it just it starts to create a more open mindset about everything and everyone truthfully. Changes the element of your life, not just play. It changes in terms of a dynamic with your child. It makes us look at things. It's not necessarily misbehavior or they never listened to me. And instead looking at behavior as communication, they're trying to tell me something and that it's my job to now figure out what that is.

[00:27:33] Jill Lerman: I think that shift is major, but I think you see it in even outside of your relationship with just your child. I think it improves your relationship with your partner and your relationships with just other people in your life and just having an openness to try more things. To, to maybe something that you didn't think was like your thing. Maybe you're like, I don't know maybe it could be right. Just like seeing more possibility everywhere for 

[00:27:57] Dori Durbin: sure. Love it. I love it. [00:28:00] Now, as we're talking, I'm sure some parents are thinking I still need more help. I can do some of this.

[00:28:06] Dori Durbin: I can't do it all on my own. And I know that you work with parents and coach them. So can you tell them a little bit about what you do and what that 

[00:28:12] Jill Lerman: looks like? Yeah, of course. So I have a couple of different ways that I work with families. One is in one on one coaching. And that is, I have a 12 week private coaching package.

[00:28:22] Jill Lerman: This is where if you're really looking to tackle in depth, maybe in multiple areas there are some behavioral things happening. We also want to work on independent play. Maybe there's also like a screen detox that you're looking to have, or you want to have less screen time at home.

[00:28:37] Jill Lerman: So there are a number of different things that you want to work on. And this is really having my early childhood and play expertise in your back pocket for 12 weeks. We meet on zoom every other week. You also have me on Voxer, which is like a walkie talkie app. I have a private client that I'm working with now.

[00:28:54] Jill Lerman: And yesterday she had a really rough moment with her child and was able to in real time, [00:29:00] reach out and get some support and strategy to help with that moment of behavior, but also to just have that like friend holding your hand with a, I'm here for you that. It's rough. I believe you, right?

[00:29:13] Jill Lerman: We all need that community so much in parenting in addition to the information and the strategies and all of that. So that's one way. I also have a low cost monthly membership where I share, like I said, simple play ideas for kids. Between zero and about six, seven years old every month that use things you already have around you.

[00:29:34] Jill Lerman: They're laid out like a recipe. You'll need this and this. This is how I place it. Here's a way to expand the play. Here's a different thing you can try. If your child is this age, try it this way. Where you really have me in your ear and in your hands giving you that support. I also drop a class on a different developmental and play topic every month, either taught by me or another expert in child development.

[00:29:56] Jill Lerman: So that you're also getting the foundational knowledge there to [00:30:00] support you. The play ideas are one piece, but we really need to have an understanding of development to see big change happen and implement change at home. You also get live Q and A as part of that so that you can ask your individual questions because every child is unique, right?

[00:30:15] Jill Lerman: We are not there's not one approach that works for everyone. That's also part of why one on one coaching I think is so important. In this age of information. And there's a lot of really wonderful information that is accessible and available. But I think sometimes it sends a message to parents that you say it in this way, following this script, and you're going to get this output.

[00:30:37] Jill Lerman: And then if that doesn't happen, the parent feels like they're failing. They feel like there's something wrong with their child. And the truth is that we need a more individualized approach. That works for some children. And what's going to work for you in line with your family values, right? So I think having that individualized approach is really important.

[00:30:58] Dori Durbin: That's awesome. Where can [00:31:00] you find, where 

[00:31:01] Jill Lerman: can they find the information about that? Yeah. So my website, www. jillybeans. nyc. com. You can learn more about my background, my one on one coaching, my membership, my podcast, all that stuff is there. 

[00:31:14] Dori Durbin: Awesome.

[00:31:14] Dori Durbin: Awesome. Okay. So if I'm a parent, I'm getting ready to make these changes, let my child play and I'm going to enjoy it. What are three to five steps that they can do today as soon as the podcast is off to start to be able to do that for themselves? 

[00:31:29] Jill Lerman: So the first thing that comes to mind would be coming back to that observation. So today, at any moment that your child seems really engaged in something as long as they're not doing something dangerous.

[00:31:39] Jill Lerman: So this could be more traditional play. Maybe they're just like obsessed with when they're washing their hands, the way the water is running, whatever it is. We just want to take a step back when they're engaged and make a note of what we notice. Make a mental note, maybe write it down on a piece of paper or in your phone.

[00:31:53] Jill Lerman: If it's not disruptive to what they're doing, taking a quick snapshot, I think can be helpful sometimes, maybe they're [00:32:00] lining everything up in a perfect line, whatever it is, right? But taking that just a minute even and observing what they're doing and making a note of it. And I would say to you, maybe do that a couple of days this week.

[00:32:11] Jill Lerman: See what you find. Are there any patterns? Is there a certain toy that they go for every single time, right? Is there a certain non toy they keep going for? Like they're obsessed with wrapping themselves in your curtain or, I'm trying to think of things, some of the toddler trademarks whatever it might be.

[00:32:27] Jill Lerman: Which is making a note of those things and observing and that's going to be step 1 to see more engaged play today, because then that brings me to step 2, which is that now we can think about maybe a way to set out an engaging play prompt for them. And again, we don't have to go crazy here. But if we're noticing they're really into their animal figurines, and they're really into their Duplo blocks, a match made in heaven might be putting those things out next to each other, right?

[00:32:54] Jill Lerman: Maybe we're noticing that they're super into just the bath and water and just all [00:33:00] things water play in general. And also they're really into Let's use their cars and their trucks match made in heaven for that child might be a bowl of water, a washcloth and their trucks. Now, we may have in mind that could become a car wash.

[00:33:14] Jill Lerman: That could be right. So we may have some ideas in mind with a prompt, but the beauty of a prompt is if that's not what they do, and instead they just immediately dump the water out and they're driving the cars over the bowl, the overturned bowl, and it becomes a mountain still productive, right? But the idea is, let's try to take these things we're noticing an observation and challenge yourself to put out something simple and see how that goes.

[00:33:38] Jill Lerman: And then another one that comes to mind is that coming back to that, where play happens. Let's get creative with this. It doesn't only happen in a bedroom. It doesn't only happen in a playroom. Let's think about where we're spending most of our time and how can we make play happen in that area.

[00:33:55] Jill Lerman: Because our child will often get into their most engaged play [00:34:00] independently when we're near to them. So thinking about what that looks like. Can I move myself and what I'm doing to where they play? Can I move what they're playing with to where I am spending my time, right? There are lots of ways we can do this.

[00:34:13] Jill Lerman: But let's get creative here. Maybe we're having a little play area in the corner of the laundry room. I don't know what it'll look like. You see where you're going to be spending your time. You But just thinking a little outside of the box, I feel like, is another really simple, actionable thing that you can do today to see some more engagement at home.

[00:34:30] Dori Durbin: That's awesome. I think it would be fun just to play in the laundry room with the basket and all the 

[00:34:34] Jill Lerman: clothes. Totally as long as we remove like whatever could potentially be dangerous. There's so much play. Our child might want to be in the basket. Maybe they want to push the basket.

[00:34:43] Jill Lerman: Again, this is where play style comes into it. If I'm a child really into physical play, I'm going to be in the basket. pushing a laundry basket or maybe pushing a younger sibling around in a laundry basket or, taking the rolled up clothes and throwing them into the laundry basket is one way this might [00:35:00] happen.

[00:35:00] Jill Lerman: If I have a different play style, maybe I'm taking the clothes and weaving them through the holes of the laundry bag, right? There's just, the possibilities are endless. It's just about being open to them. 

[00:35:12] Dori Durbin: Jill, I think you've given our listeners just so many valuable nuggets of information.

[00:35:17] Dori Durbin: I do feel like it's so much easier with that sense of curiosity and you've opened that door for everybody. So thank you so much. 

[00:35:24] Jill Lerman: You're so welcome. I'm glad that was helpful. I know for me, Personally, as a parent, that was a life changing moment.

[00:35:33] Jill Lerman: And it doesn't come naturally or easily to most of us. So don't beat yourself up about that. If that isn't your first impulse, I would say it's not most. But we can retrain ourselves and that's the beauty of it. 

[00:35:46] Dori Durbin: Thank you so much for your time today, Jill. Thank you. Thank you for having me. 


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Dori Durbin

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