The Power of Kids' Books

Solving Kid's Curly Hair Frustrations: Tips and Tricks from Curly Hair Guru, Scott Musgrave

April 10, 2023 Dori Durbin Season 1 Episode 20
The Power of Kids' Books
Solving Kid's Curly Hair Frustrations: Tips and Tricks from Curly Hair Guru, Scott Musgrave
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Listen to today's episode,  "Solving Kid's Curly Hair Frustration: Tips and Tricks from a Curly Hair Guru, Scott Musgrave" as Entrepreneur and Curly Hair Expert Scott Musgrave joins Dori Durbin. Scott also shares:

  • Scott's Leap of Faith to Hair
  • Cubist Curly Hair Cuts
  • Making the Hair Career Switch
  • How Writing Made Business
  • Inspiration & Creativity
  • Becoming a "Curly Hair Guru"
  • Why NOT to "Fix" Curly Hair
  • Scott's Take on Kid's Hair
  • Parent Advice for Curly Haired Kids
  • Yes or NO: Satin Pillow Cases
  • How To Find Scott Musgrave Hair

Did you love this episode? Discover more here:

More about Scott
Scott says "I went from USMC to construction worker and to a hairstylist. Over time I started to work with curly hair in a different way that became a system that I shared in an old blog. While it was meant for consumers it was also read by hairstylists that noticed what I was doing was different and asked me if I would teach them. So, I started a small educational company called Curly Hair Artistry. I am now in my tenth year training stylists from around the world. I also created Cultivate Your Curls which is an online course for consumers to learn how to embrace their hair."

Follow Scott:
(YouTube) Curly Hair Artistry

More about Dori Durbin:
Dori Durbin is a Christian wife, mom, author, illustrator, and a kids’ book coach who after experiencing a life-changing illness, quickly switched gears to follow her dream. She creates kids’ books to provide a fun and safe passageway for kids and parents to dig deeper and experience empowered lives. Dori also coaches non-fiction authors and aspiring authors to “kid-size” their content into informational and engaging kids’ books!
Buy Dori's Kids' Books:

Follow Dori

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[00:00:01.050] - Dori Durbin
Why is it that when we have curly hair, we always want straight, and when we have straight, we always want curly? And it doesn't matter if we're an adult or a kid. It seems to be that curly hair is something that either is a blessing or a curse. The funny thing is that for Scott Musgrave, it became a passion, because Scott Musgrave is the owner and operator of Curly Hair Artistry and shares today not only his perspective on how to keep your hair curly and love it, but also how he came about becoming the expert and guru for curly hair that he is. Listen in. Today is what I'm starting to call my expert podcast, because sometimes experts really want kids to know all about them before they ever get to see them. So, for instance, what if your kid has curly hair and you as a parent are going crazy trying to figure out what to do with it and how to fix it? Well, this is perfect for you, because today you can meet Scott Musgrave. He's the owner and operator of Curly Hair artistry, as well as Scott Musgrave hair, and he's here to tell us all about how he started in his business.

 [00:01:17.260] - Dori Durbin
Hi, Scott. And welcome! Tell us all about your business?

[00:01:21.670] - Scott Musgrave
As a regular hairstylist. In school, you're never trained to work with curly hair unless you want to fix it to straight hair. And I use the word fix intentionally because my business was, stop trying to fix your hair and learn to embrace your hair. And it's really a stop trying to fix yourself and learn to embrace more of who God designed you to be. And it's the same with your hair. God designed your hair to be naturally beautiful, but the chemicals and the structure of what we do to our hair can make it unpleasant looking for some, and they're frustrated with it. So I was a regular hairstylist, and if you want to make money in salon, your hair is dark, you got to color it. If your hair is curly, you got to straighten it. And if it's straight, you got to permit. So whatever it is, you're trained to do something of the opposite. So that's a fix it mentality that over time, I just found distasteful because I didn't want to force people to do something or tell someone because of their face structure or because of their forehead or because of their cheeks or because of their neck or something.

[00:02:34.480] - Scott Musgrave
To be able to not notice that, you need to be able to do something else to fix it. So I said, I'm no longer going to do that. And so I started tweaking. There's no knowledge of how to work with curly hair in the industry. In the early 2000s, there was a book that came out, so there was a couple of small resources, but nobody heard about them. But my straight hair, curly, wavy clients, I would work with their hair and they would say, whatever you did last time worked out really good. Just do that again. And I don't even know what I did, but I started cataloging in my brain like a structure, like a puzzle, putting pieces together and learning how to form waves and curls to naturally express themselves and over time. I called it Cubist cutting, based on Cubism from Picasso's art. He has a different way of structuring the eyes and the nostrils and the lips and the cheeks, which is all off balance, but you can tell it's a face. So I cut hair exactly like that. And the regular hairstyling world cuts hair structurally even and perfect. And that makes triangles and chunky, layered, clumpy, bulky sections that nobody with wavy and curly hair like.

[00:03:57.440] - Scott Musgrave
But if you cut it with cubist cutting principles, it grows out and looks nice way longer. So most of my clients go 3 to 6 months on one cut versus a regular cut that grows out irregular and it's bulky. So as I started cataloging in my brain, I journal a lot. I started creating a system of learning how to cut hair, and I started sharing that through a blog in 2012, when blogs were really popular. But I spent 2010, 2012, two years of learning how to craft writing through online courses. So I invested in myself in a few online courses and just practice writing every day. There's, I think, a book called The Artist Journey or something with morning pages. I started doing morning pages and just journaling. But my brain likes to create and catalog and look over things over time and make a system. And then I started writing about that and then Hairstylists started noticing it. And they'd say, well, your work is different from other brands. Would you mind teaching me? So in 2013, I started something called Curly Hair artistry and I shared then we had Live Meetups. So it's now 2023.

[00:05:17.100] - Scott Musgrave
It's been ten years of teaching hairstylist. All these methods and techniques that I've come up with, usually related to art or I read a lot of books on chefs for their thinking on plate presentation and structure and inspiration and actually apply a lot of those principles to cutting hair. So my perspective on cutting and working with hair is more artistic. So that's a long answer to how do I become involved with it. It was like God put on my heart through prayer. What do you love working with and what do you love doing as a hairstylist? And then my answer to him would be was curly hair. But I never told anybody about that. And then his next statement to me in my prayer time was, Tell the world. And that's when I started blogging. So all of those were a faith step. And from there, within a year, my business exploded beyond whatever I thought I could do. 

[00:06:17.450] - Speaker 3
That's amazing. I'm listening to you tell me that you weren't a good student. And I'm thinking to myself, you're actually a scientist. You researched, you blogged, you wrote out exactly what you did, you kept track of that, you noticed trends and analyzed information. That's science right there, science.

 [00:06:36.500] - Scott Musgrave
And somebody said, wow, you missed your call as an engineer. So these words to me aren't earthly terms, they're kingdom terms. I'm not a scientist in earthly ways, I'm a scientist or an engineer in kingdom terms. So I call it kingdom language. And I think everybody has some of those things that people have told you and you say, no, I'm not that way. Well, maybe that's kingdom language, somebody's speaking to you and you just didn't know it. Right? Because I think people mean well, but if your heart isn't prepared to take it, you can almost feel like a disappointment. But it's not a disappointment, it's actually for the kingdom. And that's a different way of tackling that perspective. So I was not a writer in the earthly world, so I wrote for kingdom perspective to help and serve people.

[00:07:25.090] - Speaker 3
That's amazing. How hard was it to leave what you were doing before to go after this?

[00:07:33.890] - Scott Musgrave
I was at a point in 2012 writing journaling in my car. My business at that time was very slow, so I cut hair during the day, and I actually was also a sleight of hand magician, so I did some magic shows. I was a portrait photographer, so I did some side jobs with portrait photography. And I also worked at Ups in the evenings for benefits so that we could support my wife in staying home and raising our then, which we still have twins that were young then. It was about two years, one year. I said, all right, my curly hair business has taken off. And my wife would say, just one more year of benefits from Ups. That would help us out. And boy, walking up the hill every day to go to Ups, which is a fantastic company, but it's really hard to work all these jobs in just one more year. And eventually the writing, the blog and the interest for advanced training with curly hairstylists and regular stylists and consumers. Reading this information and wanting help all over the world and trying to figure out a way of how can I share my knowledge with these people led to a point.

[00:08:52.970] - Scott Musgrave
It was a mature decision to leave the safety of benefits and additional income to take a faith step into it made sense for me to leave and go into something that was already developed versus leaving and developing something, then hoping it kicks in. There were sure signs. Now that this revealed, it's a good time to leave and start sharing and monetizing what I'm starting to do. So I think even some of the readers of children's books work on those things, get concepts, draw out sketches, and eventually you'll start sharing it. And I like to share things before things are even developed that creates interest. Like, I'm not really planning an event, but I'll talk about an event, then somebody will get enough interest that says, wow, now I can sell that event. So just like getting rejection letters in the mail, if your heart is into this, you just got to keep going and you don't care what other people think. Or it's almost like you become mad in your mind of truly following what you feel like you're called to do. Even though you don't even know the outcome or the results, you still take faith steps to create.

[00:10:12.560] - Scott Musgrave
Because a lot of times people don't know what you're doing or what you're about, but you've been manufacturing things in your brain for two years about it. So you're an expert, but never tell no one. So now you got to start from day one of when you are a novice and craft things out to finally reach a point where you're a master at communicating your vision. But that takes time. So I almost had to go back to day one and start telling people my story, and then there was enough interest and people believed in my why. And then when you have people that believe in your why, they follow you, and when they follow you, they trust you, and then all of a sudden they'll want to invest in you.

 [00:10:55.080] - Speaker 3
I think it's interesting too, how you built so much off of your blog. So many other forms of media seem to be more popular than writing, and yet I think writing calls to people in a different way. Did you find that to be true for you?

 [00:11:09.590] - Scott Musgrave
Yes. I was interested in a guy named Seth Godin and a few other early day marketers that wrote blogs, and I would read those. And then I discovered YouTube. Instagram was not out much. Facebook was just starting, but Facebook and some of these things that were just starting gave me a platform for free to practice writing. And boy, some of my early writings were like five pages long for a post on Facebook. And just like, who's reading this stuff? But the person that read it but was my ideal client. When they came in, they were research freaks like me. They were family people like me. They were working hard and trying to make their dreams come true like me. So now my writing is a lot shorter. I have a hard time with visual pictures. Even though I was a photographer, I'm not fired up to share pictures. I'm more fired up to write of, which I feel called more to write more. So I write a lot, but I don't share lately what I've been writing. So I've been quiet on social media for a couple of years, and I'm a strong introvert, so when I do a video, I have to turn a switch on because I'm very boring when I communicate.

[00:12:35.640] - Scott Musgrave
So I have to become animated in a ten minute video. I have to take a nap afterwards because I'm exhausted. So I've learned to pace myself and my energy. And even as an introvert, I travel around and teach Stylists for three days all by myself, teaching all day long. And I come back, I need two or three days off to recover energy, put on paper and put out, and it doesn't exhaust me. So I love writing.

[00:13:05.290] - Speaker 3
Okay. My mom was an art teacher, so I'm very interested in this perspective with you. How did you land on Picasso?

[00:13:15.630] - Scott Musgrave
I was looking at a variety of different art books, and when I looked at the Cubist picture, it was immediately I call it God's highlighting moments. It's like God highlights things to you, like a highlighting marker. It's like somebody said something that's like, why did that impact you? It didn't impact anyone else, but it impacted you. Like, Scott, why don't you go to hair school? It was a highlighting moment. I'll hear something in a song or a movie, and it's highlighted to me. When I saw the picture of Cubist art, it was highlighted to me more than the whole other book. So immediately my brain goes down a rabbit trail of searching. What is cubis? What is Cubs of Art? How did it start? And I would start reading. The movement of how Cubist art was created is exactly like how I, as a pioneer for the methods and techniques that I've come up with in my system. I'm a pioneer like these guys and ladies and people that just had a movement going, but they were far ahead of me. But I don't have anyone around me telling me how to do it. So I have to read books by chefs and artists to teach me how to do some of this stuff.

[00:14:33.420] - Scott Musgrave
So I call it Cubist curl cutting now because I didn't want it to be Scott's cutting method. I wanted it to be something fun. I want the rest of my life left to be fun and inspire myself with verbiage, with a world that I communicate to other people that invites them into that world.

[00:14:54.510] - Speaker 3
And I think you're right. Especially as a creative, it's very easy to fall into some of those traps where you feel limited by what other people are doing, or you feel like you have to keep up with somebody's perspective, whatever. And whereas if you can remove yourself out of that situation and just sink into what you're good at, it's a totally different feeling. Right? It's a different mental perspective.

[00:15:21.360] - Scott Musgrave
When I'm learning art from, I'm like, wow, I want to learn about watercolor, and I start painting like the people on YouTube. It doesn't feel like me, though. And then I learn about abstract art, and I'm just finding out that abstract art, for me, is like Cubist art. It was highlighted to me, and then I just started putting brushstrokes and mixing color and putting things on a canvas that looks like a four year old did it. But it's so liberating and it feels so good that I want to do more of that. I want to become better at that. So I have to learn the process of what God's doing to me and not compare myself. Because there is a quote, comparison is a thief of joy. And it really is when you compare yourself and when you compete against other people, that draws out things inside of me that I just don't like about myself that makes me want to compete with other people. Like, peer pressure doesn't no longer bother me. And I think as a part of artists and creatives, there aren't really any books on how to develop a thick skin.

[00:16:29.390] - Scott Musgrave
And so many artists and Christians are so thin skinned and vulnerable to people's opinions in the world that we lose a part of ourself and never truly over time express ourselves because of being thin skinned. So the solution to that is no book, no video on YouTube. It's putting yourself out there and not caring what other people think, which is hard because I want to help people. And when I get a negative review or a critical comment, it still hurts to this day. I still lose sleep over stuff that happened many years ago that maybe therapy would help me with. But I've learned to keep going. And when I keep going and the critics that used to criticize me and the things that used to happen that I've released and I've forgiven them and they no longer have authority in my heart and soul anymore, allows me to keep going and continuing on. And eventually when something like that does pop up, I notice it hurts a little bit because I'm a human, but it doesn't put me out and stop me. I just keep going. So a lot of times I have to approach people that I respect.

[00:17:40.870] - Scott Musgrave
And I was told this many years ago in marketing, if somebody's work or an author is impacted, you reach out to them, tell them, but that's not the way that God designed this process. He wants me to get uncomfortable and take a faith step towards something that he's highlighting to me and wants me to pursue, which means it takes faith and trust the journey more than the outcome. And no matter what happens, I've tried and I learned from it.

[00:18:10.170] - Dori Durbin
One of the questions that came to my mind earlier was if you have a lot of people who are intimidated by your specialty and as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking they probably aren't. They're probably in awe of just how passionate you are, that that is, like, not even on their minds. They're more in awe of what you're doing and how this has grown just so organically.

 [00:18:33.650] - Scott Musgrave
Yeah, a little bit of both. When I'm around people and I teach, then I'm behind the person. I want to see where they're falling into. When I'm watching, I'm observing where I can implement an intuitive action instead of a robotic action that we're taught in hair school, a robotic way of cutting hair. My job is to teach an intuitive approach to working with curly hair that is systemized, but it's not mechanical. So when I'm standing by them many times, they'll say, scott, you're really intimidating me. I'm getting a little nervous, and I'll say, no. So I break that wall down by saying no. What I'm trying to do is look for what you're trying to do robotically and teach you what you're investing in and learning an intuitive approach to it. And then they'll start doing that, and I'll say, See that's? It right there. They just don't see it. Sometimes we do things intuitively, and I'll say, you just did something right there. What was that? And they said, I don't know. It's just something I do. My brain likes to catalog that, name it, title it, label it, and put it in a system.

 [00:19:39.120] - Scott Musgrave
If it's not systemized yet, you get enough of them, it becomes a system. So when I tell that and communicate that before I teach them what is going to happen and most likely what will happen, that drops the defenses down a little bit. But it's kind of fun. I have an online course that's been out since 2017 that since I don't have a book, I created an online course. And the online course reads like a book and guiding them chapter by chapter to a final result of, for the first time in their life, learning how to embrace their hair and no longer fix it anymore. And when they go through that process and they come inside and I don't know, they do research on Scott Musgrave hair, and they see, oh, I was one of the top world's curly hair specialists at one point, and there's all these articles and things out there. They come inside and they make me feel like I'm a celebrity, and I'm not. And I don't like to be put on a pedestal because that's just not how I am. So they find out real quickly, I'm humble, I'm honest, I'm open, and I have no intention to do things my w[00:20:47.180] - Scott Musgrave
I want to work together to make your hair the way you want it to be.

 [00:20:53.810] Dori Durbin
And I love that, and I can tell that from just talking to you. I think you're very humble and approachable. I'm curious when you have clients come to you and they say, I can't do anything with my hair. I hate it, let's just cut it off, that kind of thing. What are some of their major complaints or issues that they're doing wrong?

[00:21:15.430] - Scott Musgrave
Well, most people that have wavy or curly hair, they've learned in salons. When they call up and say, does anyone there know how to work with curly hair? They all say yes, but their perspective is to fix the hair, not embrace the hair. So when they fix it and make it look not frizzy, because that's the first thing that people say, well, it's frizzy, so a flatiron can kill the frizz, or a brush and a blow dryer can kill the frizz. And the next step is, I'll say, well, if you didn't have frizzy hair, would you wear it curly? And they think for a second and they say, yes, but it looks like a pyramid. And I say, well, if it wasn't frizzy or a pyramid, would you wear it curly? And 99 out of 100 people usually say yes. And so from there, I've learned that the first thing to do with anybody with wavy and curly hair is it's not about brands and it's not about products. It's learning how to use what you already have. So like for my course, when you invest in my course, I teach you take what you already have and learn the techniques and the method in the system, and then eventually, real quickly, you'll get a nicer result.

[00:22:31.060] - Scott Musgrave
And instead of going to YouTube or Instagram or the store that you're going to and trying to figure out what to buy, you'll know what to buy. So this becomes, over time, a huge money saver because you can get rid of the ton of products that are underneath the counter, not being used at all or trying to guess at what to buy. My method is non brand specific. Take what you already have and practice with that. And when you start getting results, which is pretty quick, you'll know what to buy next. So you have to learn how to train what I call your inner curl mentor inside, which is your intuition to learn how to see, hear and feel and develop muscle memory with learning to work with your hair, with you doing it, not me doing it. So when I was in my studio, I would have my clients and that's a rule, never let your client touch their hair, and when they leave, it better look good from what the stylist did, not from what the client did, because that makes the salon look bad. So I broke a rule saying no. My clients will now learn to do their hair with me guiding them, so when they leave, they have some muscle memory and their inner curl mentor hears, sees and feels how to do their hair, so that when they leave, they know how much to put in, what to put in, the sequence to put in.

[00:23:50.310] - Scott Musgrave
And then the hard part then is once you get a nice day one hair and it looks nice one day is waking up and making it look good on day two and day three without straightening it and pulling it back, which is what most people do. So the first part of the journey is and my clients get asked this all the time walking around or people that take the course throughout, all over the world is, wow. It's like a magic trick. They want to know what's the secret to making their hair look good, and the first thing they ask is what products you use? And that's the worst question to ask because people can try the same products not knowing how to use them, and they say, oh, I already use that, and it didn't work good. So in my studio, I would bring people the products that didn't work good, and they would put it in, and it looked good because they knew how to now use them. So the most important thing is learning how to make a product work for you. That's the most important thing. And then from there once you learn how to make your hair look good, is to try to find someone that cuts curly hair and work with the curls to enhance the shape and the movement of the natural movements.

 [00:25:00.250] - Scott Musgrave
Because you got some that are looser, some that are wavier, and some that are curlier on one head of hair, looser up here, wavy here, and curlier at the bottom. That's three different things going on. That makes it a challenge for most hairstylists to want to work with. And for people that have wavy hair, they're kind of in between straight hair and curly hair, and they feel like they're not even in the program because they don't have curly hair or straight hair. But most salons treat their hair as if it was straight. So there's a way of learning to work with wavy hair, loose coily hair, tight curly hair, and very kinky hair as well.

 [00:25:38.900] - Speaker 3
You also work with kids, too, don't you?

 [00:25:41.340] - Scott Musgrave
Yes, I work with kids, and the moms learn my program either on their own hair and do their children's hair in the bathtub. Initially, when they're younger, the mom's doing everything in the bathtub because there's moms with straight hair that don't even know how to work with curly hair. And that was my case growing up. And boy, if you do an Instagram search on my hair, I probably promote my graduation photo, which was I had a huge head of hair, and I used Dispenser soap from the gym working out all over my body, and I just used it on my hair. Man, it looked great wet, but when it dried, it was huge. So moms have good intentions. Moms will want to take their kids to a salon and have it fixed, and that's not right, because then when they come home and the style is dried naturally, it's lopsided and bumpy and clumpy in a triangle. And so a lot of times, they'll let the child's hair grow and get longer and just start learning how to work with it, but not knowing how to work with it. So they'll intuitively kind of come up with ways of trying to work with it, but usually a lot of times when specifically a girl will go to a neighbor's house and the neighbor's child will say, let's do a flat iron party.

 [00:27:05.920] - Scott Musgrave
And they come home and the mom goes, oh my gosh, what'd you do? And they flat iron their hair at home with each other kids playing around. And the kid goes, Mom, I want a flatiron for Christmas or my birthday. Now they have a sense of their identity. Curly is not good, their identity with straight hair is better. And so that starts lowering the child and impacts the dynamic of a family in a way when you start learning about this. But their dignity and their self esteem now is attached to compliments that come from their straight hair versus loving and embracing their curly hair. So I try to get as many kids learning about this, mostly from when their hair is short. They can just learn about products, and mom can help them do their hair. And they can almost go anywhere for a cut. When they're early, when they start caring about what their hair looks like, then they start coming to me in my chair, because currently you take my course, you know how to work with your hair, and when you come in, I do a cut only. And I don't have to teach you spend hours teaching you all of these things.

 [00:28:15.790] - Scott Musgrave
So it's just the cut. But once the child learns how to work with their hair at home through their parents teaching them, or they learn by themselves, then they come in. And you would not believe how fired up they are of learning and embracing their God given curls. They end up loving it and they hardly ever straighten it. And there's nothing wrong with straightening it once in a while and having fun and wanting something different. I encourage that. But if they're going to do so, let's do it from a healthy hair perspective of embracing it versus ruining it over time. And it getting worse because most of my clients with wavy and curly hair, they come back with their hair in better shape than it was in the straight hair world where it looks like they need a cut in six weeks.

[00:29:00.490] - Speaker 3
What are a couple of pieces of advice that you would give to parents that you really wish that they would have known before they ever came to you?

 [00:29:09.230] - Scott Musgrave
Yes. So when hair is dry, puffy and frizzy, the best thing you can do is the most expensive thing in the whole part of learning to embrace your hair is having really nice conditioner. So a conditioner can really lay on your hair and look greasy, or it can actually melt into the hair and help with hydrating your hair so it makes nice clumps and lays down instead of spreading out and making frizz. And the weird thing is, most people are told their whole lives to rinse all of it out because it'll look. Greasy. So the main ingredient to avoid with all curly hair products are silicones. So those are anything that end in cone. And there's another one that ends in Xan E, and they're usually really long. Cyclosumphenzan is how you pronounce the Xan E or Ammodiumthicone dimethicone trimethicone silicone, those are cones. So that's what makes hair look greasy. It's a shine ingredient that's put in that's almost like liquid plastic that coats the hair and that makes the hair look and feel cosmetically good. But it doesn't do it from a health approach, it's a cosmetic approach. So if you can find a product without silicone in it and I don't like to mention brands at this point, but I do find some that I believe in and that I trust.

 [00:30:38.880] - Scott Musgrave
So a nice conditioner that you squeeze into really wet hair, do a very quick rinse and pull your head back and learn to leave it in. Your hair should feel slippery and slimy, like you want to rinse it out more, but you don't. And then the next thing you do is when you work some gel in on really wet hair, some mousse or gel, in my system that's called a sealer. You seal in the hydration that you left in when you put the gel in. And there's something called a prayer motion where you trap the hair between your hands like you're going to pray and you run from the top down to the bottom. That usually makes chunks, but for wavy hair, it pulls it straight, which is fine. You're just putting your hair to sleep for a second. And then you want to use your fingers like a comb or a brush and distribute the product around evenly, usually from the middle to the lower hair because you don't want anything up towards the top of the hair. And then once it's prayer motioned, you can go back to prayer motion. Then you want to lift it all up from the bottom and to the top of your head and just squeeze it like a few times.

 [00:31:48.500] - Scott Musgrave
We call that pulsing. You hear a squishy sound like and then you let it down and it should be in a really nice ringlet. Then when you do your whole head, you want to take like a T shirt and then ball it all up your hair in sections and squeeze it real tight and let go. And what that does is push the product into the hair. And you don't want to leave the fabric on too long or squeeze out too much water because the wetter the better. So that means a longer air dry time. You don't want to squeeze out too much water because if you squeeze out too much, then you remove too much of the product and it doesn't do its job. And your hair is already looking frizzy because you took too much water out. So a mom or a dad can do that to their son or daughter and have their hair dry and it gets a little crunchy. And then it's called scrunch out the crunch. When you squeeze your hair when it's dry and crunchy, it should be soft because of the conditioner that you left in. Now, if you don't leave conditioner in or leave in too much, most people don't like the way their hair feels.

 [00:32:53.050] - Scott Musgrave
That's a sign you didn't leave in enough conditioner. So when you scrunch your hair with a fabric and let it go, you'll see nice ringlets. And there's something called hover drying where you take a diffuser and just diffuse the outside of your hair without even touching it. So when you touch it and lift it up all the time, you're breaking up the clumps and you're creating frizz. So people say, Well, I'll never diffuse my hair again. Then they resort to air drying. The air drying can make hair look stringy, long and thin. So if they diffuse five or ten minutes to release the water weight and let the curl lift up a little bit and then let it air dry, they usually like that. And then when you go to bed and wake up in the morning, you can put your hands in warm water and do that prayer motion on dry hair. You keep doing that over and over with warm water on your hands until it reaches a point where the conditioner you left in and the gel or foam you put on is reactivated. And then you let that dry and then you can go another day.

 [00:33:51.640] - Scott Musgrave
So that's the best thing I would try to do. I have a lot of moms that their children have really short, big, puffy hair, and they say, well, can you cut it and make it look better? And I'll say, well, that person just needs to put in some conditioner and gel. And then they'll say, well, he doesn't want to put any products in. Well, then my cut won't help with that. No matter what kind of cut, if you're not putting in product properly, a cut will not rescue your hair. So the product is what makes hair healthy over time. So a really good conditioner, and you can actually use a really cheap gel. So the gel is the least important part of this process.

 [00:34:34.870] - Speaker 3
That sounds so much easier than fighting with the kids and combing through it and trying to dry it and do all the extra stuff.

 [00:34:41.210] - Scott Musgrave
Yeah, some little kids, you got to put conditioner on dry hair and just start working it through. And sometimes you can't use your hands. So using what's a wide tooth comb or what's called a wet brush to help distribute the product through the hair is sometimes required because nobody wants to spend 15 minutes trying to get one tangle out and then you got more to go. Now, the deal with tangling hair, a lot of times if it's dry and thirsty, it velcros together but when you start leaving conditioner in and putting a proper sealer on it, it starts repelling instead of clumping together. And so you get a lot less tangles on healthy hair. And then the next thing that helps is sleeping on a satin pillowcase, a cheap satin pillowcase. And you can travel with it. You can take the case with you to hotels. And when you sleep like that, your hair slides and glides instead of shredding and nodding up more. It's not an automatic solution of waking up with beautiful hair. It just means over time, it's not shredding your hair up and roughing up the cuticle to make hair break off or make more tangles.

 [00:35:47.960] - Scott Musgrave
So a satin pillowcase is very helpful for any human being to sleep on to help reduce and make hair more nice, especially over time. And when you go back to a regular cotton pillowcase, you wake up oh my gosh. You can tell a difference of how it shreds your hair because you learn not to take a towel and towel dry your hair roughly at an early age, hopefully. But you learn to just squeeze your hair gently with a fabric instead of using a towel on it. Well, sleeping on a cotton pillowcase is like taking a towel and towel drying your hair for 8 hours at night, making it a mess. But a satin pillowcase really helps out a lot.

 [00:36:26.830] - Dori Durbin
That's great advice. Well, I think probably the best next advice would be to contact you and get more information, right?

 [00:36:34.270] - Scott Musgrave
Yeah. And they can reach that's my website that shows how to become a client has information about the course and they can email me any kind of questions that they have, usually when they get the course. Now we're on the same page with the vocabulary and how to work with your hair and I can recommend something at that point because then you'll know how to use it. So that's when I usually recommend products. Scott Musgrave Hair on Facebook is my business facebook page that usually shows a lot of information. And at Scott Musgrave Hair is my Instagram that has pictures of clients from all over the world that have used my course that they did their hair. So most of my Instagram shows pictures of people with successful results and results that have worked well without me doing it. So it's a different approach to that so they can reach me or contact me through any of those avenues.

 [00:37:29.330] - Speaker 3
That's fantastic. Well, I hope people got a ton out of this conversation. I know I did. And I hope they'll feel confident to just reach out and contact you with more questions.

 [00:37:40.530] - Scott Musgrave
Yes, that would be great if they do so. And thank you very much for having me on. It was a delight to be with you and speak with you.

 [00:37:47.090] - Speaker 3
The same for me, Scott. Thank you.


Introduction to Scott Musgrave
Scott Leap of Faith to Hair
Cubist Curly Hair Cuts
Making the Hair Career Switch
How Writing Made Business
Inspiration & Creativity
Becoming a "Curly Hair Guru"
Why NOT to "Fix" Curly Hair
Scott's Take on Kid's Hair
Parent Advice for Curly Haired Kids
Yes or NO: Satin Pillow Cases
How To Find Scott Musgrave Hair