[00:00:00] Angela Dube:
Our society really tells us how important it is to be perfect at all of these things. And it's just not possible. So when we're constantly trying to reach these standards of having a clean house, having a good relationship with your kids, doing parenting all the right ways, maybe having a career, maybe having a social life or hobbies of your own, a lot of parents sacrifice those things for parenting. And it takes a lot to pull ourselves out of that cycle
[00:00:30] Dori Durbin:
I know as busy moms, we may occasionally tease about feeling burnt out from our long day. But what if we truly are feeling burned out? If you've ever questioned how you're feeling as a mom, personally. You might also appreciate knowing if you're actually experiencing burnout and how you would know how your kids are affected. If you're feeling that way. Some practical ways to practice self care and how you can start to improve your situation.
[00:00:58] Dori Durbin:
Today's guest is a licensed marriage and family therapist and a certified clinic coach. She works remotely as a therapist, specializing in children, adolescents, and parents and also as a mom burnout coach worldwide. She wants moms to feel re-energized so that they can raise the next generation of great kids. While still finding time for themselves.
[00:01:19] Dori Durbin:
So Angela, most women are familiar with the concept of burnout for work and less familiar with it as a mom. So question number one, is it similar? And number two, what exactly is burnout and how do I know if it's happening to me?
[00:01:34] Angela Dube:
Yeah, so I would definitely say that it is similar, but I think it's harder to recognize because as a mom, it's the default, right? This is just part of our normal everyday life, living at home, doing the things that we need to do to take care of our homes and our families, whether or not we also have jobs, right?
[00:01:57] Angela Dube:
And we forget that this is [00:02:00] actually a lot of work to take care of your family and take care of your home. And even though we're not getting paid for it, it still has a lot of stress around it and a lot can build up very quickly. And Like I said, it's just harder to notice, I think, when it's the stressors at home that are burning us out.
[00:02:22] Angela Dube:
But I'd say the impact is so similar, like really having a hard time being motivated, really struggling to get things done, maybe feeling just really tired and depleted and a little checked out. It can be easier to get angry when we're burnt out and have a shorter fuse. At work, this might look around, look like, around specific tasks or actually like getting up and going to work, interactions with co workers or a boss.
[00:02:49] Angela Dube:
But at home, it's struggling to get things done. It's struggling to clean things around the house or play with kids. It's having very little patience with your kids and feeling like you're just going to snap over every little thing if they make a loud noise or they don't listen to the first It's The first time all of these things can be a sign of burnout. And I know for me personally, when I feel burnt out around family and home life, it's a lot of like emotionally checking out like. I'm there in the room with my kids, but my mind is somewhere else. I'm just going through the motions of doing all of the things that are a part of parenting.
[00:03:37] Dori Durbin:
And it's probably not just one day. You can have days where you're, tired as a mom, you didn't sleep, your child kept you up all night, whatever, but it's probably multiple days is what I'm guessing.
[00:03:47] Angela Dube:
Yeah, I think for a lot of people it's a chronic issue and we can get really stuck there, right? It's so easy to get stuck because all of these things just keep piling up and we [00:04:00] don't necessarily get a break. So this is partly why I do the coaching work that I do is because I know how hard it is to change these habits. And realize that we do need to prioritize our own wellness over all of the things that need to get done.
[00:04:18] Angela Dube:
Cause our society really tells us how important it is to be perfect at all of these things. And it's just not possible. So when we're constantly trying to reach these standards of having a clean house, having a good relationship with your kids, doing parenting all the right ways, maybe having a career, maybe having a social life or hobbies of your own, but a lot of parents sacrifice those things for parenting. And it takes a lot to pull ourselves out of that cycle and choose a different path forward.
[00:04:53] Dori Durbin: Yeah, I feel like when we first became parents, I had these very idealistic expectations. I was like, I'm not only going to have a clean house, everything's going to be labeled. I'm going to have a photo album I keep up. I'm going to be this, that, like I had this list in my head. And then that was completely blown to smithereens within like the first two nights. It was destroyed and I kept thinking, I'm not going to make a good parent, and I think that might not be that uncommon because I think parents come into it very idealistic and then they realize that life is way beyond what they can control . Is that true?
[00:05:33] Angela Dude:
Yeah, absolutely. These standards are impossible. They're absolutely impossible. We would need to have 72 hour days to do all of the things that we want to do at 100%. And we just can't. We have to pick and choose. And maybe today I'm going to prioritize one thing and tomorrow I'd prioritize another thing. So one, one thing I really love doing is just breaking down that stereotype. So this morning, I [00:06:00] totally posted a picture of my sink full of dirty dishes on social media. And I said "today I am choosing having a quiet morning to re flats and take care of myself.
[00:06:13] Angela Dube:
I'm going to go to yoga class in a little bit. I might do the dishes later today, but I also might wait until tomorrow. So I really just try and put these messages out there to the world that like, you can't have it all. You have to pick and choose.
[00:06:29] Dori Durbin:
That's a really interesting distinction too, because I think in order to have it all you think every check has to be checked and you're right like sometimes it's just making the choice of that moment or that day even and what is it that you really need to accomplish that's going to make you feel like you actually did something or met some unfulfilled need that you have
[00:06:52] Angela Dube: Exactly.
[00:06:54] Dori Durbin: Did anybody post their pictures underneath your picture? I was just curious.
[00:06:57] Angela Dube: Not yet. But I did actually, right before logging on here, did the everyone tag and told people to do it. So we'll see if after this, if anybody went ahead and did that. I did, I got a lot of comments though, of I'm so glad you're prioritizing you.
The dishes are just a distraction. And I got one comment, one comment that I want to I do want to touch on upon because I think this is a really common thing that a lot of us feel if you just did those dishes, it would take less than 10 minutes. And then you could have a quiet morning for reflection and self care.
[00:07:33] Angela Dube:
And I'm sure that is true. And how I actually responded, though, is Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. That is true. And What about all the other things that are on my list? My floors need to be vacuumed. My inbox is full. I have notes to write for my therapy work. The dog needs to go for a walk. I should probably change the sheets on my bed at some point, right?
[00:07:57] Angela Dube:
So it's like, where do we draw this line of being productive and stopping and resting when our bodies are telling us, Yeah, you're tired. You need to slow down.
[00:08:08] Dori Durbin:
I love that you answered it that way. I think it'd be easy to feel guilty about it. Oh, yeah, 10 minutes is simple, right? But in the moment, that's not what you needed a quiet morning.
[00:08:20] Angela Dube:
And it was lovely. I feel like I had such. Like great reflective thoughts and had a chance to think about what are some things I'm needing in my life right now. What are some things I'm wanting to do for me to take care of myself? What are things I want to prioritize with my kids?
[00:08:39] Angela Dube:
Because, they're going through some big stuff right now and I want to support them and be them, be there for them. But when we are so busy doing all of the things, just running from one thing to the next, we don't have. The capacity to slow down and figure out what is the most important thing what [00:09:00] does need my energy right now, where do I need to focus my attention right now and life doesn't slow down.
[00:09:06] Angela Dube:
It never stops. It's crazy and every week there's a new crisis, right? This is life in general. And this is definitely parenthood, right? Like the past few weeks, we have not had consistent school and daycare because of weather and illnesses and all of this stuff, like three weeks of inconsistent childcare, what do you do, right?
[00:09:31] Angela Dube:
You do the best you can, you let go of some things that you need to let go of, you pick and choose what's going to be the most important thing to focus on and make the best of it.
[00:09:39] Dori Durbin:
That's so true. Okay, so let's focus just for a second on the kids. Let's say you're a parent that is experiencing these burnout issues, but isn't willing to do anything different quite yet because of the routine, because of whatever is looming over you, how are the kids responding to your burnout?
[00:10:08] Angela Dube:
Yeah. So I have definitely had a lot of personal experiences with burnout as well as, seeing other families struggle with this too. I think it's pretty universal, right? I want to normalize this, but it's, it doesn't, you're a bad parent. This is hard. But I see this a lot.
[00:10:26] Angela Dube:
My background is working as a child therapist and a lot of parents would bring their kids in, my kids acting out, my kids sad, my kids anxious, all of these things. And over time, I really started asking the parents more questions about their own emotional wellness, because And I see this with my own kids too, when I'm struggling.
[00:10:48] Angela Dube:
So I, I want to say that, I've definitely experienced burnout. I have depression. So I have had depressive episodes that I've had to parent through. Our family went through a major trauma two years that I had to parent two traumatized children while traumatized myself, like there are these situations in life where we are not doing. Great parenting. We're doing good enough parenting. We're doing the bare minimum. We are floating through. But what I will say is that when kids know that their parents are checked out, they are wired to know whether or not we are there. Even if we are physically there, our minds are wired to Or elsewhere, they can sense that they know and they are, they're wired to know that we're paying attention to them because that's how they survive, right?
[00:11:38] Angela Dube:
If we were, out in the bush living out in the wild, like they would need to know that their parents were looking out for them to make sure that they didn't get eaten by a lion, right? So this is where that comes from. And when they notice that disconnect and they don't have words for it, especially when they're That's when They start to either check out and maybe they have their own signs of sadness or depression or withdrawal.
[00:12:05] Angela Dube:
This might turn into anxiety of, Oh, what's going on with my parents? I'm going to try even harder to get their attention and nag at them and see if I can get them to respond. This could turn into acting. Where maybe they're doing all of the naughty things. And this can escalate pretty extremely for some children, depending on how they're wired and what their experiences have been.
[00:12:32] Angela Dube:
A lot of times when kids are acting out or seem withdrawn or anxious, there's probably a linkage back to how the parent is doing emotionally. And I don't say this with any shame or blame because we've, we're all going to have. These periods of time where we're not doing our best, and it is our job as the adults to get the support that we need to be able to make some changes so we can still show up and support our kids.
[00:13:04] Angela Dube:
And I think a lot of parents. feel that pressure to like, I need to be the best parent I can be for my kids. And this is where the mistake happens. And then they say, I need to do all of the things for my kids. I need to go above and beyond to help them with all of these things or always be present or get them involved in all the extracurriculars, get them.
[00:13:31] Angela Dube:
Tons of support in school, whatever, it's they overload themselves and they overload their kids rather than focusing on what's going to be the best thing for my emotional wellness so my kid can thrive.
[00:13:46] Dori Durbin:
That makes a lot of sense, because if you're not emotionally well or in a place of wellness. You're not going to be able to parent the child that you really need to be parenting.
[00:13:58] Angela Dube:
And not in the way that you really want to. This like running ourselves into the ground is so well intentioned. Because we're like, yes, this is what my kids need. This is how I'm going to best support them. But by sacrificing ourselves and our own emotional well being, it's actually doing a disservice to our kids. Because we are not. showing up in the way that we want to show up, and they can feel that.
[00:14:21] Dori Durbin:
How do you help a parent who sees that situation where they're sacrificing themselves, they're pushing through, let's say, and if they take the extra time, they see it as being maybe lazy, or not working hard enough, or, those negative pieces of self care that people often carry.
[00:14:42] Angela Dube:
How do you work through that? Yeah, so this is absolutely why I provide coaching support around this because these messages run deep. We live in a society that tells us that we have to be on at 100 percent 100 percent of the time, and it is really hard to undo these messages. Honestly, it's just. small, consistent steps in the right direction.
[00:15:08] Angela Dube: And having community, right? So it's doing the habits of self care, starting small, starting wherever you are, right? Small chunks consistently. Okay. Today. It didn't work out because daycare got closed. Where can I reschedule it? Where can I fit it in? What can I do instead? Because plan A is not going to work maybe I actually need to jump down to plan D because the first three are not going to happen. So small, consistent steps, making it a promise to yourself, reminding yourself this is important. And it's not just important for me, but it's important for everyone around me and how I want to show up to the world and families our jobs, whatever it is that's important to us.
[00:15:56] Angela Dube: And then again, the second piece is the community piece because it's so hard to undo these messages. In a vacuum, because the world is going to push back , our children are going to push back when we take time for ourselves, any spouses or partners right before we jumped onto the podcast recording our animals,?There are somany things screaming at us to say, no, you need to pay attention to me. You can't do that. And our employers and just our families, our parents everybody wants us to prioritize everything else, etc. And it takes a lot to be able to do it.
[00:16:44] Dori Durbin:Yeah, it's interesting because as you're speaking, I'm thinking it should be easy. It should be something that you would want. But yet there's probably going to be a point where you realize that things are either escalating or they're just not where you want them to be. And it must be like this epiphany that happens. Is that true?
[00:16:59] Angela Dube: Yeah I think so. I think for a lot of people, it has to get really bad before we realize like this is just not sustainable. And I think, also, when things get really bad, the answer still isn't clear of what we're needing and that the answer is that we need to slow down and take care of ourselves first.
[00:17:24] Dori Durbin:
People usually look outside themselves first. Okay, I need. I need somebody to come in and clean my house that would help me or I need a new car because that's probably what's causing this problem. It, they look outside of themselves before looking inside that they need to worry about themselves.
[00:17:38] Angela Dube:
Yeah, absolutely. And not to say that those aren't real needs, right? Like they, those things could significantly help people depending on what's going on for them, right? And they also need to do that inner work, because in order for these more external solutions to be effective like you also need to pair that with your inner world, your inner mood, your own ability to regulate yourself and feel happy because otherwise we're just constantly oh if I just had this next thing, then I'll be happy and it becomes a trap because there's always going to be one more thing that we need.
[00:18:21] Dori Durbin:
So true. So many things in life are like that too. But then you're dealing with you, it would seem like that would be so much more in the forefront. But again, if your mentality is to push and put everybody else first, you're not going to think of that. So when it comes to actually having burnout what are some of the steps that people should start to take? You said small things. So is it as small as I got a shower today or is it even more personal?
[00:18:49] Angela Dube:
It can be so many different things and it's going to be different for each person. So yeah, a shower, taking a shower. by yourself is like the perfect solution for many people, right? That's wonderful. For me, actually number one priority for me is sleep. I need to make sure I get a good night's sleep, which is hard as a parent. And then. Next for me is moving my body somehow. I do really love going to a yoga class.
[00:19:17] Angela Dube:
That's or going for a hike. Like those are like, I'm doing great if I'm able to carve out those things for myself, but it doesn't always work out. So sometimes it's okay, I'm going to do a little bit of yoga in my bedroom or lift a couple of hand weights for five minutes or something tiny just to move my body or go for a walk around my neighborhood.
[00:19:37] Angela Dube:
And one thing I really try and focus on when I work with my clients and I do this for myself as well is being intentional and being present, right? So whatever it is that you were choosing to do for yourself that you need to do for yourself to take care of your own wellness, whether it's a shower, whether it's journaling being present and [00:20:00] intentional and .
[00:20:00] Angela Dube:
Rather than letting your mind just completely wander and think about the to do list and do all of the things, right? Training our brains to be present for whatever we're doing has such a huge impact with rewiring our brains for calm and joy.
[00:20:18] Dori Durbin:
Since you've been doing this, How much have you seen the kids copy what the parents start to do now? So if the moms are like taking that time and they're maybe sitting down at breakfast and saying, okay, I'm just going to focus on how delicious this is in this moment. Are the kids starting to pick that up as well?
[00:20:36] Angela Dube:
Totally. Totally. So my kids, oh my God, they blow me away sometimes. So one thing that I like to do is I go take quiet time. Like when I'm feeling really overwhelmed as a parent and I'm just like, I can't handle you guys. You guys are too much. I'm just like, I'm feeling overwhelmed. I'm going to just go take quiet time for myself for a little bit and I'll go and I'll put myself to [00:21:00] bed. I've seen my kids do this too, and I also really like to read, like that's really calming for me in those moments.
[00:21:06] Angela Dube:
And I've seen my kids go and ask for quiet time and go look at a book. I've seen them practice yoga poses. It's very interesting how they practice yoga poses, but they do. Likewise, they meditate, which, again, by an adult standard, we might not call it meditating, but They are copying. They are mimicking some of the healthy habits that I do, and it's wonderful to see because I think Even though they can't really implement it very well yet I think it's a really good foundation for them in the future when they get a bit older. You're really teaching them coping skills and life skills in the process without really teaching them.
[00:21:44] Dori Durbin:
They're just learning through observation, which is awesome.
[00:21:47] Angela Dube:
And it's so much more effective because, if I really want my kids to learn something, but I'm not doing it myself, they're not going to believe me, right? Actually a few years ago, I I was really working on dialing in my own mental health because I was struggling, right?
[00:22:04] Angela Dube:
And one of the things I decided I wanted to just experiment with was my screen time, like how much I was using my phone or watching TV or whatnot. And I decided to just take a week off , I'm going to take a week and just see how I feel. I still used it for like the bare minimum basic requirements of doing my job and I really just limited it to those tasks. And I noticed after that, my mood just really changed. I felt more present. I felt more energized. , I found I didn't really miss it after having a break and I was finding time to do other things I enjoy like reading. So I had done that for myself and what I've noticed since then, and this was several years ago, is I have no urge to give my kids a screen.
[00:22:50] Angela Dube:
It would feel really weird for me to put my kids in front of a screen, right? Because I don't do it for myself, right? So these things, like a lot of times as parents, we want our kids to learn a new skill or be able to have a different habit. But if we can't show them how to do this, they're not, they're going to be like, yeah mom, you're on your phone all the time too. And no, again, no shame or blame for using screens. This is something that has worked for me and my personal parenting style. And I have seen this kind of fallout effect for my kids that I have grown to really enjoy.
[00:23:29] Dori Durbin:
That's awesome. I think that's something that, if you thought about first. It's like what they're watching you do is what they're going to do. So when you're feeling burnt out and dragging and more or less miserable at times, right? They're picking that up and they're probably reflecting that, whether that's in front of you or not.: It could be at school. It could be with friends, who knows, but they're reflecting it somewhere. So that would be even more motivation to fix and change what's going on.
[00:23:58] Angela Dube:
Yeah, actually, just this past week with one of my clients she was talking, so her oldest daughter just got into her first college of choice and everything.
[00:24:10] Angela Dube:
She's a senior in high school and she's I really just wish she would go have fun. Like the stakes are so low now. Like, why doesn't she just relax and go have fun and go do stuff with her friends? But instead she's, really working on. studying and this is a kid who takes school very seriously, which is a wonderful thing. And then I love it. Cause I've been working with this mom long enough that she paused and she was like, I don't go have fun. I'm like, yep. Okay. There you go. What are you going to go do your next homework assignment?
[00:24:49] Dori Durbin: It's so true because whether they want to follow what you're doing or not, they do.They do. They have this lifestyle that somehow is an expectation in their own mind. Or it's just what's comfortable. And if they don't see you doing something outside the box, they're not going to do anything outside the box. Yeah. Which can be good. Yes. But it also can be bad.
[00:25:09} Angela Dube:
Exactly. Exactly.
[00:25:10] Dori Durbin:
Interesting. Talk to me a little bit about your programs that you offer parents. And moms specifically, right?
[00:25:16] Angela Dube:
Yeah. Yeah. So at this point I'm really focusing in on moms. I will do one on one coaching for dads, but my signature program is really for, tailored towards moms and the messages that we receive as women that impact our parenting, right?
[00:25:31] Angela Dube:
So yeah, I've got a couple different things going on. One, I have a free community if you're looking for just free support and online community. I have a Facebook group called self care mamas with Angela. You're welcome to join me over there or send me a friend request on, on Facebook for just like free inspiration and prompts.
[00:25:53] Angela Dube:
And I do free weekly trainings as well. And then for my paid programs where we do a deeper dive and have some more sustainable change. One, I'm in the process of getting a group up and running because I am really passionate about having the community piece. I think it's just so important to do this together because we, like I mentioned earlier, have So many messages in society that are telling us like, Nope, you can't prioritize you.
[00:26:21] Angela Dube:
That's not going to work. I'm going to demand your attention and distract you. So when we come at it together, we can be so much stronger and more effective and provide each other with that support. And then currently I do have one on one coaching where I also offer my online course that I've created off of 10 years of working as a therapist and also do some one on one coaching sessions to support my clients and making these changes.
[00:26:45] Dori Durbin:
I can imagine a community would just give you so much more of a sense of I'm actually normal. There are other people that are experiencing the same thing and it's not just in my head. It's common. It's even more common than I thought. And so bolster the fact that you can have these feelings and you can still be a parent and a really good parent at that.
[00:27:08] Angela Dube:
, absolutely. And I'd say a lot of these feelings are universal. Some people will have a more extreme experience and story and some will have a less extreme experience and story, but we all experience it. This is a hard society to live in.
[00:27:28] Dori Durbin:
You said something earlier about Perceptions that women have about themselves. Can you give us a couple? I'm really curious about that.
[00:27:41] Angela Dube:
I think a lot of times it's like the pressures that we feel to do all of the things and do all of the things perfectly. That's really huge and that we need to come last. That we need to get all of those things done before we're allowed to experience joy or [00:28:00] relax or go do something just for us, because we want to spend money on ourselves. That's a huge one. I can't tell you how many parents I know are so happy to spend hundreds of dollars on their kids sports equipment or whatever they're needing. And they're like, no, I can't afford that one thing for me.
[00:28:18] Dori Durbin:
Yeah so true.
[00:28:21] Angela Dube:
These messages run so deep, and honestly, even if we don't have kids, we have internalized these messages, especially as women.
[00:28:32] Dori Durbin:
Do you have something that you have done as a mom, post burnout, that you feel really joyful about now?
[00:28:40] Angela Dube:
So yeah, I've gotten to this point in my life where I radically prioritize myself. Just completely unapologetically.
[00:28:49] Angela Dube:
Yeah, yoga is big going for hikes by myself. I started going on retreats just little weekend ones because my kids are still little. I like to be around [00:29:00] them for longer periods of time, but having a couple nights away every so often isn't bad. So yeah, going on retreats has been really beautiful or spending time with friends overnight without any children. Yeah I'm very intentional with carving out time and experiences for myself separate from my family.
[00:29:19] Dori Durbin:
That's awesome.
[00:29:19] Angela Dube:
Yeah, and I guess the other thing that I've really been investing heavily and both the time and finances as my career.
[00:29:27] Angela Dube:
I've been really intentional. In the past few years of I'm building my career now and I'm going to make that a priority and I'm still going to be a mom and show up. But I guess I really think about it more about quality versus quantity, right? So I'm not with my kids 24 seven, but the time we do have together is more high quality.
[00:29:49] Dori Durbin:
So if someone came to you and said, Angela, I really want to be a good parent, what would be three to five things that you would suggest to them that they could do [00:30:00] right now to improve themselves?
[00:30:04] Angela Dube:
Well, I mean, first and foremost, I would say prioritize something just for you. That you want to do just for you, whether it's big or small, but make it a priority and make it happen. Don't compromise on it. I would also say work on finding ways to regulate yourself, right? And, and check in with how am I feeling?
[00:30:27] Angela Dube:
How am I doing? What am I needing? And then when we are not doing well, having strategies. That you have practiced ahead of time that you know help you with your big feelings. Because we all have big feelings sometimes, right? And really getting in the habit of being able to use those. And it is a habit. It's a skill. You gotta practice it to be able to use it in the moment.
[00:30:51] Dori Durbin:
That's probably really important for people to hear. That it's a skill and you practice it. It's not natural. It's not something you just fall upon when you become a parent instantly. You have to practice.
[00:30:59] Angela Dube:
Yes. Absolutely. And I guess the other thing I would say in terms of being a good parent is having intentional quality time with each child, and together as a family. And it, it doesn't have to be big over the top experiences. But make sure whatever you're doing is. Something where you all feel connected
[00:31:23] Dori Durbin:
This is great stuff. I've stalked your website, so I know that you have a lot more and I've been on your Facebook page as well.
[00:31:30] Dori Durbin: So can you tell them where they can find you and what they should look for?
[00:31:35] Angela Dube: So I am most active on Facebook, so you can look me up there, Angela Dube, D U B E, and my Facebook group is Self Care Mamas with Angela. I would love to have you in my online communities for sure. I also have a free masterclass on how to stay calm when you want to scream and you can find that on my website which is [00:32:00] selfcareparenting. com slash stop yelling
[00:32:04] Dori Durbin:
I saw that was it like eight minutes.
[00:32:06] Angela Dube:
Yes only eight minutes.
[00:32:09] Dori Durbin:
And it can help me
[00:32:10] Angela Dube:
Exactly. Yep. I really do go into like, how can you rewire your brain, right? Because again, if these are, these are skills, uh, but the more we practice them, the easier they become and the less we eventually need them.
[00:32:27] Dori Durbin:
Angela, thank you so much for all your valuable information. I can't wait for people to find you. And I am going to check out the whole eight minute scenario as well. I think that's helpful to anybody. So thank you for all that.
[00:32:37] Angela Dube:
Yeah, thank you so much. This was wonderful.
[00:32:45] Dori Durbin:
It was. Thank you.